Another consideration as it relates to ratio's are what I would refer to huntable doe to buck ratio's.I understand with new fawn births that 50% will be of each sex.As it relates to the huntable buck population though the 2.5 or 3 doe's to every buck isn't indicative of the balance as it relates to bucks that would be legal to kill.We would have to subtract out the % that the button buck population represents to get to that ratio.My greatest interest is in the doe to buck ratio when you exclude the button bucks and yearling doe's.I would anticipate that there would be a much greater disparity in the ratio's.Interesting topic!
I've been hunting deer in NYS for about 30 years now and must disagree. In experience most deer I've seen taken on DMP's have been button bucks. My guess is about 75%.
Jerry
__________________
GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.
I've been hunting deer in NYS for about 30 years now and must disagree. In experience most deer I've seen taken on DMP's have been button bucks. My guess is about 75%.
Jerry
I would say the exact opposite. I would think it would be rather "easy" to determine through the DEC records (the reports on doe harvests that are males)
__________________
NAHC Life Memeber
PSE Dakota
WB Deluxe QS
PSE Top Gun F-22
PSE NV System
SVL - modular stabilizer, limbsavers, leeches, cable damp
TRU Ball Rack/Loopmaster
Easton arrows, Muzzy 125 gr
Ithaca, Remington, Ruger
Bushnell
I am 15 years old and next year will be my first year with a big game liscense. though i feel that this restriction will with out a doubt help the new york herd i feel that with the limit on doe tags and the new antler restriction it may be very difficult for me to bag a deer.I will have to go to other states to hunt deer. over all i have mixed feelings on the restrictions
I am 15 years old and next year will be my first year with a big game liscense. though i feel that this restriction will with out a doubt help the new york herd i feel that with the limit on doe tags and the new antler restriction it may be very difficult for me to bag a deer.I will have to go to other states to hunt deer. over all i have mixed feelings on the restrictions
snedd162 first let me say welcome to the big game ranks. Getting a deer is really a matter of knowing where they are, where they feed, where they bed down and when they move to these areas. Scouting is a big part of getting a deer, having said that getting a deer is just one part of hunting. I have spent 30yrs. hunting and have had many years with no deer but, I have enjoyed every minute I had in the woods.
So find yourself a place doa lot of preseason scouting, give yourself the best chance you can and enjoy yourself.
jlynch34, I would say that I don't see how what you are saying is possible,and if it is that is some pretty sad commentary on our hunters in NYS's ability to judge yearling deer.I have never shot a deer that I did not know exactly what it was.
The ability to judge an adult doe from a yearling is not difficult.The exception to this would be driven deer and jump shooting.I would expect at worst the deer management permits that are filled are 25% button bucks,more likely 10% to 15%.I am not directing this at you so please do not take offense.I do think for some a deer management permit eliminates their need for complete identification.To me that is inexcusable.
snedd162,
Welcome to the ranks and good luck to you! I hear what you are saying about your mixed feelings and that is certainly understood.Depending upon where your from the herd can be vastly different.I happen to live in an area with not the greatest deer density,although there are some area' within our units that hold more deer than others.As BigJohn H has said scouting is the key.Many years ago I became a more consistently successful deer hunter as a result of my commitment to scouting.If you find where they eat and where they bed and how that get from one place to the other you will do just fine.The more locations that you are aware of their routines the better.
I would suggest from the beginning you keep a log book to diary your observations.Date,weather conditions,moon phase,wind direction,what type of deer sign you saw,droppings,beds,rubs,scrapes,runways.Where they were in relation to feed area's and bedding area's.
If you put in the effort and supplement it with reading as much about deer biology and good quality deer hunting books you will be well on your way to being a successful deer hunter.
It all depends where in Greene County you live. We have too many right now. In the mountain areas/Catskills there are very few deer. Good thing we had a good acorn crop and min. snow cover. Cototes are killing alot of deer. I just herd from a farmer that lives in Greeme county that someone found a coyote den and there were about 30 deer skulls there ...mostly fawn skulls. I know coyotes kill many deer where I live in the early summer. Witnessed one carrying a fawn in his/her mouth last year. I believe a DEC officer once told me a coyote on the average kills 6 fawns a year. WOW!
As far a button bucks being harvested with doe permits, very few in the 15 years I've hunted. Rarely do we see this in our area. Hunters that do this are looked down upon where i live if they harvest a button buck. Guys don't live it down around here!
I think you all have missed the point regarding BB mortality. Whether the number of BBs harvested on DMP is 15% or 75%, or somewhere in between is moot. Through more tags comes more BBs killed, that's the point. Use the following as an example and explanation:
If 15% of DMPs used are BBs, then:
50,000 total DMPs used = 7,500 BBs harvested
75,000 total DMPs used = 11,250 BBs harvested
If 50% of DMPs used are BBs, then:
50,000 total DMP used = 25,000 BBs harvested
75,000 total DMPs used = 37,500 BBs harvested
What I am saying is, if the % of BBs harvested on DMP remains consistent, then by increasing DMP issuance and usage (more tags issued does equal more deer harvested, even based upon success rates being constant) the risk to the new buck recruits also grows.
We also have@ 520,000 deer hunters in NYS. 2005 saw a decline in antlerless harvest, as was desired through 35% reduction in DMP issuance. We still harvested 91,200 antlerless deer. If we take 15% assumption as BBs, that means we lost 13,680 future bucks, based on 15% BB harvest, and this represents, based on 89,000 bucks harvested in 2005, an additional 15% of NYS bucks got whacked.
I hope that kind of puts things in perspective. This also speaks to the folly of a one buck rule. 14% of hunters get a buck, with 5% of them being lucky enough to get a second. That isn't the problem, I believe the problem is BB harvest on DMP, and this is something we must use education at the hunter level to address. A law won't cut it.
__________________
ol' Doctari
WeLoveOutdoors.com
Freelance Outdoors Writer
Rec Sec. Erie County Federation of Sportsmens Clubs
Secretary Audubon Fishing Club
RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
