logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Regional Forums > Midwest

Midwest OH, IN, IL, WI, MI, MN, IA, MO, KS, ND, SD, NE Remember the Regional Forums are for Hunting Topics only.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-23-2013, 11:28 AM   #21
Fork Horn
 
Team Radical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 102
Default

I work in Western Illinois writing management plans on monitoring land easements. I found 30+ dead bucks in Schuyler last year, did not count the does. Although this year I have only found 8. Better than last year but still hard for the deer herd thats for sure!
__________________
Family Not By Blood, But Tradition!

www.team-radical.com
Team Radical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 12:00 PM   #22
Zim
Typical Buck
 
Zim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: St. Charles, Illinois USA
Posts: 891
Default

I still don't see any relevant stats. Using B&C entries to gauge is just too small a sample size. P&Y would be a far better indicator. The way the stats are calculated in that article is very misleading. To post any mathematical figures that claim Iowa ranks below ANY of those states listed is a complete joke. Iowa has zero gun days in November and their hunting quality is unsurpassed. It blows away Indiana & Illinois. Hell there are nonresidents from every one of those other states that wait 4 years and pay $500 to hunt their slammer public. Been going there since 1990. Why do I see so many guys from Indiana there each year I draw? I've hunted all those states except Ohio. Illinois is not what it once was at it's peak, but the 3 November post-rut gun days will always result in it holding serve.
__________________
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & SFW-Hate Club

Last edited by Zim; 10-23-2013 at 12:04 PM.
Zim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 02:13 PM   #23
Fork Horn
 
whitetailcrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lansing, Illinois
Posts: 396
Default

How is it that you think P&Y sample size would be better? The min. score to make P&Y for a typ. whitetail is 125 and 155 for non-typical. You will not hear very many die hard hunters regard a 125" buck as a "Trophy Buck". Those stats I gave you are the same stats that Outdoor Life used in their July 2013 edition, which take all bucks harvested between 2009-2011(which is a large sample size) and figured what % of those deer(bucks) harvested made Boone and Crockett... They used Boone and Crockett scoring because of the higher scoring system.. P&Y scoring limits entries to archery kills only and B&C scores both animals killed with firearms and archery kills.

P.S. This is a relevant stat, due to the fact they count all bucks harvested between those years and how many were entered into B&C... P&Y would be limiting the sample size to archery kills only.
__________________
Let young bucks go, so they can grow! Practice QDM.
It's not how many you shoot, its what you shoot!
http://www.facebook.com/kezler

Last edited by whitetailcrazy; 10-23-2013 at 02:44 PM.
whitetailcrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 06:35 PM   #24
Zim
Typical Buck
 
Zim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: St. Charles, Illinois USA
Posts: 891
Default

There are so few B&C bucks taken anywhere. This article doesn't even tell you how many B&C were taken in each state.

Plus there are many other factors. I can tell you've never hunted Iowa because you wouldn't even be speaking Indiana in the same breath. Iowa blows away IN & IL. Period. Been there seen that. I know when I lived in Indiana anyone who took a 126" deer would be running to enter it in P&Y before they got it to the meat locker. I inspect post offices and work statewide in Illinois. Can't tell you how many photos of absolute toads that don't get entered. I can't imagine the mentality in IN switched over that quickly.

Looking for real P&Y/B&C stats. Not an article.
__________________
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & SFW-Hate Club

Last edited by Zim; 10-23-2013 at 11:13 PM.
Zim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #25
Typical Buck
 
Murdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 814
Default

I'm not sure the percentage-of-total-harvest statistic OL is using is a valid means of comparison. Wisconsin has a CWD problem and, accordingly, they issue tags like crazy in the CWD zone. That has to skew the percentage when measured against B&C bucks taken (or P&Y). Not all states have the same management strategies and goals. The number and types of tags they issue as a result will effect the percentage (if you issue more doe tags, B&C bucks will be a lower percentage of total kill), Indiana is, I believe, a one buck state. Illinois allows two bucks per year. More Indiana hunters will wait for that special buck, pushing the percentage up. There's just too many variables to make the comparison meaningful.
Murdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 09:05 PM   #26
Fork Horn
 
whitetailcrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lansing, Illinois
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murdy View Post
I'm not sure the percentage-of-total-harvest statistic OL is using is a valid means of comparison. Wisconsin has a CWD problem and, accordingly, they issue tags like crazy in the CWD zone. That has to skew the percentage when measured against B&C bucks taken (or P&Y). Not all states have the same management strategies and goals. The number and types of tags they issue as a result will effect the percentage (if you issue more doe tags, B&C bucks will be a lower percentage of total kill), Indiana is, I believe, a one buck state. Illinois allows two bucks per year. More Indiana hunters will wait for that special buck, pushing the percentage up. There's just too many variables to make the comparison meaningful.
That's the point I have been trying to make! Indiana went to a one buck system what 5 years ago or more? Don't know exact number of years, but you can see it's been paying dividends! When does a buck reach it's peak antler growth 5-6 years of age... You can see the 1 buck system is clearly leading people to hold out... I don't hunt in Indiana, and Zim I couldn't agree with you more, that in the past a great deal of people from NWI(of whom I know) there motto was if it's brown its down.. Times are changing!

Illinois' lust for the dollar is what clearly put the hurting on the Illinois deer herd.. It wasn't til 2 years ago that all the money spent in the dept. of Conservation, actually stayed there as opposed to emptying its funds and placing them elsewhere.... I talked to wildlife biologists, last year that had stated that EHD had not affected the herd whatsoever.... They do not want to stop the flow of money spent by non-resident hunters! There lies the problem with Illinois, I seen the surge prior to this year of non-residents from Penn., New York, New Jersey, Maryland leasing property all around me to hunt on. Not all, but a great deal come with the attitude, if "I spent all this money, I'm at least going home with something, usually meaning a buck less then 130", which greatly effects the quality of the herd around you. That's why Iowa is good as it is! They didn't open the flood gates!

The numbers stated show percentages not actual number of entries, sure they may be skewed because some states allow 2 bucks, that correlates directly with the quality of the herd. Some people don't even score there bucks, so there will always be variables. Isn't Eastern Iowa the best place to hunt, central and western Iowa mostly plains....(Don't know, never hunted there?) Maybe that may be why the numbers are off?
__________________
Let young bucks go, so they can grow! Practice QDM.
It's not how many you shoot, its what you shoot!
http://www.facebook.com/kezler

Last edited by whitetailcrazy; 10-23-2013 at 09:08 PM.
whitetailcrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 11:39 PM   #27
Zim
Typical Buck
 
Zim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: St. Charles, Illinois USA
Posts: 891
Default

There are many methods to manage for mature bucks, but keeping guns out of the rut is absolutely the number one ingredient. This has been proven over time. Antler point restrictions & OBR are marginally effective but the only alternative for states that gave the rut to gun hunters years ago. The sense of entitlement developed by the much larger gun hunter special interest group makes it impossible for those states to fix their problem now.

The lower 1/3rd of Iowa, plus far eastern along the river has the cover and terrain to allow bucks to live the longest. The difference in quality to the rest of the state is significant. Some of those areas have leftover NR tags, but for zones 5 & 9 the wait is 3/4 years annually. Illinois & Indiana public is hot garbage by comparison. I work in all three of these states and get to scout the majority of all their public lands, in addition to hunting all three extensively. The sample size I get to see is huge.
__________________
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & SFW-Hate Club
Zim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 06:55 AM   #28
Typical Buck
 
Murdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetailcrazy View Post
That's the point I have been trying to make! Indiana went to a one buck system what 5 years ago or more? Don't know exact number of years, but you can see it's been paying dividends! When does a buck reach it's peak antler growth 5-6 years of age... You can see the 1 buck system is clearly leading people to hold out... I don't hunt in Indiana, and Zim I couldn't agree with you more, that in the past a great deal of people from NWI(of whom I know) there motto was if it's brown its down.. Times are changing!
I wasn't really taking a position on the benefits of the one-buck rule; I do not doubt that it has beneficial effects. My point was that different management strategies (like the one-buck rule) cause hunters to engage in different behavior and affect the percentage-of-total-harvest statistic, which makes that statistic of limited value in comparing different states. In Indiana, for example, the percentage may be higher because there are more mature bucks, or it may be higher because hunters refrain from shooting smaller bucks, or, most likely, some of both. Similarly, the statistic in both Illinois and Wisconsin has to be heavily affected by their CWD eradication programs.
Murdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 09:36 AM   #29
Fork Horn
 
whitetailcrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lansing, Illinois
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murdy View Post
I wasn't really taking a position on the benefits of the one-buck rule; I do not doubt that it has beneficial effects. My point was that different management strategies (like the one-buck rule) cause hunters to engage in different behavior and affect the percentage-of-total-harvest statistic, which makes that statistic of limited value in comparing different states. In Indiana, for example, the percentage may be higher because there are more mature bucks, or it may be higher because hunters refrain from shooting smaller bucks, or, most likely, some of both. Similarly, the statistic in both Illinois and Wisconsin has to be heavily affected by their CWD eradication programs.

No disputing that, totally agree with you..
__________________
Let young bucks go, so they can grow! Practice QDM.
It's not how many you shoot, its what you shoot!
http://www.facebook.com/kezler
whitetailcrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2013, 11:50 AM   #30
Spike
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 55
Default

I'm just happy to be leaving the Chicagoland area and getting away from it all and away from public land for at least a week. I hope west central IL deer weren't hit too hard.
BTW, is anybody doing an rattling this time of the season? Or grunts?
SnakeEater is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:50 PM.