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Guns Like firearms themselves, there"™s a wide variety of opinions on what"™s the best gun.

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Old 12-26-2004, 08:35 AM   #1
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Default Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

You guys really should read this link I'm gonna post. Talks about a lot of theory's and even gives excellent data on actuall performances of bullets and calibers. He doesnt like small guns thats apparent says no penetration but then shows a .223 gettin 10.5 inches of penetration while a 7 mag with a 175gr got 9 inches. Big bore guns got around 40 inches of penetration. Tells why TKO theory is bunk, along with almost all theory's including shock values. Should keep you busy for a while.
A definate must read.

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
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Old 12-26-2004, 10:50 AM   #2
 
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Default RE: Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

Just started reading and I have to chime in, thanks for posting this up!
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:29 PM   #3
 
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Default RE: Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

Rex I havent read the post yet but I can probably guess as to the dismissal of TKO and such factors, as well as penetration test results. I think THE most important factor in a guns viability for big game is penetration (assuming proper bullet design is used which will yield great penetration). The most spectacular kills I have ever produced (regardless of caliber) were typically the ones with the most penetration in the bodies main core. Dis-regard neckshots and spine shots as they are more "CNS overload" type of wounds.

For the most precise picture of penetrations effectiveness I will yield too the experts who hunt dangerous game because obviously their end results are MUCH more important than we lowly deer hunters. Peter Hathaway Capstick all arrogance aside, was a very knowledgable authority with regards too such matter. The man really truly loved the .375 H&H for its deep penetration qualities, and abored such regulations that prohibitted its use on Elephants/Rhino strictly because of a fictitious round number like .40 being set simply by governmental bodies who likely had never pursued the animals with ANY caliber arms.

A test is also subjective. The only truely effective medium that I know of is that of freshly killed carcasses. A box of wet newspapers filled with dowels is not very indicative of even a bull elks internals, much less something as massive as a buff. If anyone is saying they can kill such animals with a boiler shot from a .223 they are either challenged in the gray matter between their ears area. Or they have a short list of heirs! Simple penetration is not enough, it takes damage of two types. Tissue damage like from a properly sized projectile moving at suitable velocities or hemmoragic shock (blood loss) like that from a broadhead put in the right spot. Extremely small calibers do neither in terms of large animals (those over 500#s).

Sure a .223 too the lungs probably will kill a buff given enough time. But its what that buff will be doing too the countryside (and any unfortunate souls in the vicinity) during those last remaining minutes that is of concern for hunters without a deathwish. If simple energy was likewise the answer then calibers like the super 30s would be equally effective killers as the big bores whose energy they equal (458 Wins, 416 Rigby etc). But we know better dont we? Sure we have the bullet technology to keep a bullet together when fired at extreme velocities and into extra tough animals like the largest plains animals. BUT ask those that have tried it, my Warbird wont turn a buffs lights out as quickly as a 375 H&H or especially rounds over and above the 460 Wby.

And here again I think its simply a matter of projectile size and wound channels. I can poke a hole as large and deep through a deer with my bow as I do my Warbird. But the rifle will change the intestines into a jello-ish pile of purple "goo" that no arrow can replicate. THAT is energy (through velocity) at work for you. Even if a .223 could be pused too such penetration levels, the effects on the tissue nearby wont be remotely close.

Did I write that?
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:57 PM   #4
 
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Default RE: Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

Yes, I believe you did write it, and I enjoyed reading it.
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Old 12-26-2004, 01:25 PM   #5
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Default RE: Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

Thats a great post Red...however I'm afraid it will go in one ear and out the other [X(]
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Old 12-26-2004, 02:49 PM   #6
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Default RE: Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

I read some of it and will read more but the part about over penatration tells why the 223 is not as efective as you think ,if you read what he is saying not what you want to here.
Biger diamiter kills better !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-26-2004, 04:28 PM   #7
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Default RE: Good Link (Shooting holes in wounding theories)

A rifle like the 45-70 with good cast bullets will penetrate further that 1600 fps than it will at 2000 fps. Thats because to much velocity will promote extra expansion. Expansion will limit penetration and many times ruin the straight line of travel which will also limit penetration. Nothing is cut and dry in ballistics.
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