Marlin big bores have caught my eyes recently. I don't have a need for any of them, so don't ask. But they look like some fun calibers to reload for and play with. I have searched thru the data, and really don't see huge differences in performance between 444, 450 Marlin, 45/70, or even the 457Wild west. I would want something fun to play with, yet a big boy on the block. Thus far, from my findings, 45/70 almost does what the others do for a reloader like myself. They say the 457Wild west gets 2200fps with 350gr bullet. But the data page doesn't support that on www.wildwestguns.com I figured I could shoot 45/70 loads out of a 457WWW gun. Any experience here? I am used to big recoilers. That don't concern me. I just like to have a bit of fun.
Since you are a reloader, I would go with the 45/70. I have one, and my dad has a .450, and I am going to buy a .444 Marlin next week, but the 45/70 has the most bullets available, and cases are so easy to find because the cartridge is 150 years old. The .450 has limited loading gear, and you can beat it if you reload for the 45/70. The .444 shoots smaller bullets than the .45 cals, but gets a little more speed. I have the Marlin 1895 with the 22 inch barrel, and it is a sweet shooter. Probably my favorite factory load for it is the Remington 405 grain SP, just because it is good for game around here like deer, antelope, elk, and bear. But to see some loaded up hot, check out www.garrettcartridges.com These are what I will take grizzley hunting and to Africa when I get the chance to go.
The .444marlin bridges the gap between the .44mag and the .45-70, falling just a little on the .44mag side of dead center b/w the two...I personally don't have much use for it, I bought one and sold it within a year, it's definitely a good deal flatter shooting than the .44mag, and it handles heavier bullets a bit better, but the fact that it's loaded with handgun bullets (I don't know if anyone has begun producing a rifle bullet in .429/.430" yet, when I bought mine, they hadn't) really really limits its effective range to barely more than the .44mag. I wasn't impressed with it but it has its place, it'd be good for mid weight deer species (heavy mulies, elk, really light moose, close range sheep and goats etc) at relatively close ranges (under 150-200yrds, depending on shooter). Mine did quite well on whitetailed deer, ferral hogs, and elk (elk at very close ranges), other than the elk (which I've never used a .44mag for), I don't honestly know if the performance was any better than my .44mags, that's why I sold it.
If they've come out with "rifle bullets" in 44 diameter, then all of the above would change, I'd probably buy another one for black bear hunting and elk for certain.
Since you're a reloader, I'd recommend the .45-70, you can bump up the power of the .45-70 to beyond that of the .450M and brass is a bit cheaper (some people don't like reloading belted cartridges either)...non-reloaders are stuck with a little less power from "standard" factory rounds, or they can pay prices on par with .450M ammo and get .45-70+P loads that match or surpass the .450M, not to mention the +P rounds come in about as many bullet types as the .450M, which is quite limited in selection.
The .450M is a great round, it's not going to replace the .45-70 though, although it may share a relationship more or less on par with say a .308win and .30-06 in coming years (i.e. neither really has a distinct practical advantage over the other and both are quite popular). I bought one to see what it was like, I didn't see much difference in performance vs. my tried and true .45-70's.
Likely, if you're going to need more power than factory .45-70 ammo has, you're going to need a bigger increase in power than the .450M requires, and you're not going to need more than either on this continent (handloading the .45-70 to +P/marlin loads evens them out, so I was refering to factory loads). So picking either of them is up to you, whether you've got a 400grn bullet at 1900fps or 2100fps, dead is dead, either will be quite stout enough for anything you'll encounter in North America.
Pierce had a interesting article using a .45-70 in africa, shot a cape buffalo bull in the shoulder, it went through and through, and penetrated nearly through the cow standing unseen behind him (bullet stopped beneath the hide on the far side). The first shot would have been fatal for both, I don't know if he continued on the cow, but he gave the bull two or three more shots at the PH's instruction (shoot until they're down) that would have also been fatal alone. There's a interesting thread on this board about it, you might check it out.
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If you insist on factory loads for the .444, you will be dealing with handgun bulets. I use a 315 grain cast flatnose, and it raises the bar considerably.
Take a look at the Marlin 45-70 Cowboy model. If you don't mind the long barrel which I think is 26 inches long. That would wring the most Velocity from the 45-70. I looked at one and I love it. It is a little spendy though. Over 500.00 most places. The 45-70 woul be my choice but I love all the Marlin Big bores. The 47-70 is very vertitile for the reloader. You can load it for small game at low velocity or load it for Bear with the big cast bullets.
The 444 marlin has the advantage on power and tragectory over the 45-70. There are some new 45-70 loads out there that can reach the velocity and energy of the 444marlin. If you were to buy only factory loads I would chose the 444 marlin. For close in shooting in which these rifles are meant for either one is plenty capable of doing the job. I would like a 45-70 cowboy marlin its a nice looking rifle.
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The 444 marlin has the advantage on power and tragectory over the 45-70. There are some new 45-70 loads out there that can reach the velocity and energy of the 444marlin
Only if your talking factory loads, once you reload, the 45-70 leaves the 444 in the dust.
The Nosler Reloading guide (fifth edition) has three write ups on these calibers, it explains the difference well. I would pick the 444 but most of my hunting is on deer size game. Hornady makes a 265gr rifle bullet for the 444. I have an opportunity to get a marlin chambered in 444 (dies & all), my dad has one and since his by-pass surgury he can not take the kick. If I was planning on doing a elk/moose hunt I would probally opt for the 45-70 or 450. All look like they would be a pleasure to reload.
I was looking at the 457Wild West. But I can't afford those bad boys. I might pick me start looking at the 45/70. I really never plan to put a factory thru its bore to be honest. Figured it would be a fun gun to shoot deer with behind my house where shots are short.
I think the bulet weights for the .444 go from 180 gr up to aroung 300 gr. The 45-70 and 450 Marlin start at 300 gr and go up from there, up to 500 gr in some cast ones.
The 45-70 in a modern rifle like the Marlin or the stronger Ruger #1 is capable of stopping anything on this continent provided the ranges are short to moderate. (<150 yds). The 45-70 in the Marlin cowboy edition is a dandy rifle. But I really like my 1895 guide rifle. That 18" ported barrel is a dream to carry. Especially traversing the mtns. of north central PA for black bear. And I never feel undergunned with this "little rifle".
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Someone explain 45/70, 450Marlin, 444 etc.
