What's important in a Concealed Carry weapon?
01-24-2016, 06:22 AM
#11
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 9,519
I disagree. I think first and foremost should be comfort so you aren't constantly fiddling with it and trying to adjust it. You want to "forget" that it is even there. If it isn't comfortable you most likely won't bring it along every day either, and whats the point in having a CCW permit if it sits at home?
Dress around your weapon. If that means you can't wear a tank top and swim trunks to the mall, then you don't wear tank tops and swim trunks to the mall. I can comfortably carry in the summer while wearing a tshirt and shorts..., with quality gear it's possible with most compacts and subcompacts. But I'm the first to admit that wearing a weapon all day is not comfortable. There are days my back is sore, my hip is sore( from wearing a duty belt which is a whole other topic) and even throwing an IWB holster on is not the most comfortable option. Point is, Comfort is fairly low on my list for selecting a CCW.
What are your goals? If your goal is to comfortably carry your weapon, buy something small, light, and carry it in a cell phone type case on your belt, or in a pocket holster. But don't complain when your empty because you couldn't shoot beyond 21 feet.
If your goal is to defend yourself, your family, and others around you, then pick a weapon that you can do that with. And learn how to wear it in the way that works best for you.
The CCW game has changed in recent years in my opinion. The threats people used to carry for are different than the threats we can face today. Mass shootings have simply changed the game. A small compact low round revolver was a good option when you were concerned about a robber catching you on the street. But now a threat could potentially be an Active Shooter in a crowded mall, 75 feet away with an AR15. A compact, small caliber, low round count "comfortable" option is still better than not carrying at all... But there are better options out there, and it may require you to sacrifice a little comfort. Just my opinion.
As mentioned I carry a springfield XDS off duty. Usually on an IWB holster. I also always carry a spare magazine usually in my pocket.. Not because I want my pockets full of junk because it's comfortable, but because I believe that's the smartest and safest option.
Again, any carry option is better than not carrying. So if you need to be comfortable, buy for comfort. It's better than nothing.
-Jake
01-24-2016, 06:29 AM
#12
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 9,519
I'll add this as well... I may have different goals than many with ccw due to my career choice. I personally would not be comfortable just carrying a ruger lcp as my only option. But for many people that may work perfectly. It just doesn't fit the role that I need it to fill.
-Jake
-Jake
01-24-2016, 08:36 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ****ifornia
Posts: 5,052
And I'm sure you're goals, my goals and Joe Fridays goals are all much different. I live in a very small town in California where things are very conservative, but just an hour away are "cities" where CCW's are pretty much non-existent so my goals are ABSOLUTELY no printing or fiddling with my holster or weapon, ever. So I will sacrifice firepower for comfort, if I can't do the job in 7 rounds of 9mm then I shouldn't be engaging the threat.
In my perfect world, I could open carry and I'd be carrying a nickel 1911 or an FN FiveSeven.
01-24-2016, 04:35 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,186
A CCW should first be concealable under any circumstance. While size has lots to do with concealibility it will affect comfort. Ease of operation and firepower are the next things I consider. These are subject to the individual opinions.
I like a revolver in .357 mag. It is a Ruger LCR so no hammers, safety, or racking a slide. Very quick and quiet to get out and shoot.
In the other hand some don't like the idea of 5 shot revolver so they would need an automatic pistol with a detachable magazine. You have access to more ammunition capacity and quicker reloads.
If I spent more time around big cities I might reconsider my definition of firepower from a few powerful shots to more ammunition capacity and reloads.
I like a revolver in .357 mag. It is a Ruger LCR so no hammers, safety, or racking a slide. Very quick and quiet to get out and shoot.
In the other hand some don't like the idea of 5 shot revolver so they would need an automatic pistol with a detachable magazine. You have access to more ammunition capacity and quicker reloads.
If I spent more time around big cities I might reconsider my definition of firepower from a few powerful shots to more ammunition capacity and reloads.
01-24-2016, 06:51 PM
#16
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,380
Excellent topic with some quality answers. To answer your questions, see my answers in blue ink below. In general, I try to match my CCW weapon (size/caliber-wise) to the risks/situation that I anticipate. After that, I figure out what options I have as far as clothing, methods, etc.
Other considerations--You asked (wisely) about other considerations. From personal experience, these are my observations based on 25 years of carrying both openly and CCW. If you're carrying openly, full size is the only way to go. Longer sight radius for more precise aiming, etc.
If you're carrying CCW, it depends on what your CCW needs are, what clothing you're going to wear and what types of threats you anticipate. I know, no simple rule.
If you're going into some dangerous area where you think you'll have a reasonable chance of being involved in a shooting or gunfight, you should consider carrying full size and carrying extra magazines. Even better, bring friends who are also carrying CCW.
If you have to carry CCW, here are some important facts to realize. For just speed of draw and shoot accurately, these are the fastest to slowest methods of CCW:
1. Waist/belt/inside the belt holster--Hanfs down (no pun intended), this is the fastest method. Border patrol type holster is probably the fastest followed by various upright holsters with safety holsters being the slowest.
2. Gun bag holster is 2nd fastest method. Not as fast as belt holster but significantly; faster than # 3.
3. Shoulder holster. Is significantly slower than #'s 1 & 2. I know people like the Miami Vice look and it has it's place but just be aware that it is slower.
4. Small of the back holster. A lot of reaching and it is slower also.
5. Ankle holster. Not really that stealthy when you look for it and the slowest method involved.
There are other methods (hidden in purse, briefcase, jacket pocket, under short, etc.) that may be more stealthy (concealed) but they are generally also slower to draw and fire.
If you're thinking that you're "reacting" to the bad guy(s) criminal behavior and are starting behind the proverbial 8-ball, you're correct. The single best weapon you have is to pay attention to your surroundings and AVOID being placed into a shooting situation to begin with. Failing that, you want to keep large objects that offer cover/concealment between you and potential bad guys. Yes, it might seem a little paranoid but over time, you can get quite adept and smooth at this so it doesn't even look like you're doing it. After all, it's much easier trying to draw and fire from behind some kind of cover/concealment than having some dirtbag stick a gun in your face and you have to "react." Extra information to consider but it's smart to consider this type of "what if" stuff.
Hopefully all of this stuff helps some.
When you were considering a concealed carry, what was most important to you in making your decision? Are there other considerations besides what I listed below? How did you prioritize these?
1. Size of weapon for ease of concealment.
I often decide what to carry (size of pistol) based on how I need to conceal it. If it's in a gun bag (or waist/belt type holster under a shirt or jacket), I can carry any size but prefer full size (preferred if you're in a gunfight) or compact. Sub compact is for when you need maximum concealment and you're trading size, sight radius and therefore pinpoint accuracy for total concealment.
2. Carrying capacity (number of rounds).
Although the "average" gunfight only involves one firing 2-3 rounds, I doubt any of us are willing to risk that. If my goal is to fire a couple of rounds and back the attacker off before I evacuate (basically run and hide), then I carry less rounds (say 5 or less. If I'm concerned about being in a gunfight, then I know I want at least 10 rounds based on personal experience.
3. Caliber (for knock down power).
Since any pistol does not guarantee a knockdown (that's what shotguns with buckshot or slugs are for), I prefer a major caliber (9mm, 40 or 45, etc.) if it will work for CCW.
4. Comfort in shooting (large bore on a small frame kicks a lot).
I don't worry so much about the kick (all recoil/muzzle climb is controllable) but i do notice a distinct advantage in shooting full size, then compacts and sub-compacts last. Since most gun fights are 7 yards or less, any size pistol will do but when you're counting 1/10's of a second, you want any advantage you can get (I prefer compacts or full size).
5. Accuracy.
Due to sight radius alone, full size pistols are more precise, then compacts and lastly sub-compacts. This often depends on the individual's hand size, personal preference, etc.
1. Size of weapon for ease of concealment.
I often decide what to carry (size of pistol) based on how I need to conceal it. If it's in a gun bag (or waist/belt type holster under a shirt or jacket), I can carry any size but prefer full size (preferred if you're in a gunfight) or compact. Sub compact is for when you need maximum concealment and you're trading size, sight radius and therefore pinpoint accuracy for total concealment.
2. Carrying capacity (number of rounds).
Although the "average" gunfight only involves one firing 2-3 rounds, I doubt any of us are willing to risk that. If my goal is to fire a couple of rounds and back the attacker off before I evacuate (basically run and hide), then I carry less rounds (say 5 or less. If I'm concerned about being in a gunfight, then I know I want at least 10 rounds based on personal experience.
3. Caliber (for knock down power).
Since any pistol does not guarantee a knockdown (that's what shotguns with buckshot or slugs are for), I prefer a major caliber (9mm, 40 or 45, etc.) if it will work for CCW.
4. Comfort in shooting (large bore on a small frame kicks a lot).
I don't worry so much about the kick (all recoil/muzzle climb is controllable) but i do notice a distinct advantage in shooting full size, then compacts and sub-compacts last. Since most gun fights are 7 yards or less, any size pistol will do but when you're counting 1/10's of a second, you want any advantage you can get (I prefer compacts or full size).
5. Accuracy.
Due to sight radius alone, full size pistols are more precise, then compacts and lastly sub-compacts. This often depends on the individual's hand size, personal preference, etc.
Other considerations--You asked (wisely) about other considerations. From personal experience, these are my observations based on 25 years of carrying both openly and CCW. If you're carrying openly, full size is the only way to go. Longer sight radius for more precise aiming, etc.
If you're carrying CCW, it depends on what your CCW needs are, what clothing you're going to wear and what types of threats you anticipate. I know, no simple rule.
If you're going into some dangerous area where you think you'll have a reasonable chance of being involved in a shooting or gunfight, you should consider carrying full size and carrying extra magazines. Even better, bring friends who are also carrying CCW.
If you have to carry CCW, here are some important facts to realize. For just speed of draw and shoot accurately, these are the fastest to slowest methods of CCW:
1. Waist/belt/inside the belt holster--Hanfs down (no pun intended), this is the fastest method. Border patrol type holster is probably the fastest followed by various upright holsters with safety holsters being the slowest.
2. Gun bag holster is 2nd fastest method. Not as fast as belt holster but significantly; faster than # 3.
3. Shoulder holster. Is significantly slower than #'s 1 & 2. I know people like the Miami Vice look and it has it's place but just be aware that it is slower.
4. Small of the back holster. A lot of reaching and it is slower also.
5. Ankle holster. Not really that stealthy when you look for it and the slowest method involved.
There are other methods (hidden in purse, briefcase, jacket pocket, under short, etc.) that may be more stealthy (concealed) but they are generally also slower to draw and fire.
If you're thinking that you're "reacting" to the bad guy(s) criminal behavior and are starting behind the proverbial 8-ball, you're correct. The single best weapon you have is to pay attention to your surroundings and AVOID being placed into a shooting situation to begin with. Failing that, you want to keep large objects that offer cover/concealment between you and potential bad guys. Yes, it might seem a little paranoid but over time, you can get quite adept and smooth at this so it doesn't even look like you're doing it. After all, it's much easier trying to draw and fire from behind some kind of cover/concealment than having some dirtbag stick a gun in your face and you have to "react." Extra information to consider but it's smart to consider this type of "what if" stuff.
Hopefully all of this stuff helps some.
Last edited by CalHunter; 01-24-2016 at 06:53 PM.
01-24-2016, 09:05 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Maybe it is just me, but safety is right up there at the top of my list. I get in a situation maybe once every ten years when I may need a pistol. That is 3650 days, with every day a chance of an accidental discharge, against the one day I may actually need that pistol.
A quick draw is secondary for me, while having that pistol secure while I go about my daily chores is paramount. I'm not one for leaving my pistol laying around, even in a vehicle. I'm likely to be wearing it while I cut wood, dig holes or whatever.
The only pistol I'd ever carry with one in the chamber is my P-7. Everything else the chamber is empty. Racking the slide back only takes a second.
Even my revolvers have an empty chamber under the hammer. The experts will say you don't need it, with the newer pistols having a hammer block. I have one revolver now with a broken hammer block (it fell out one day at the range), fires just fine.
I always carry two extra magazines.
I've seen numerous accidental discharges. And I'm not talking about novice shooters either, mostly people who carry every day and had a brain fart. The law of averages is going to catch up with you some day.
I watched one guy blow his own kneecap off (mostly it was just hanging by a thread of meat).
I've seen or heard about numerous close calls. I'm a firm believer in Murphy's law, whatever can go wrong will go wrong. I plan for worst and hope for the best.
Open carry, that pistol is right at my crotch. It may look funny, but nobody is going to grab it from behind.
Concealed carry, a shoulder holster. High under the armpit is a good spot to be able to clamp that holster down tight with your arm if you have to run any distance. Kind of depends on your build if it will work for you.
A quick draw is secondary for me, while having that pistol secure while I go about my daily chores is paramount. I'm not one for leaving my pistol laying around, even in a vehicle. I'm likely to be wearing it while I cut wood, dig holes or whatever.
The only pistol I'd ever carry with one in the chamber is my P-7. Everything else the chamber is empty. Racking the slide back only takes a second.
Even my revolvers have an empty chamber under the hammer. The experts will say you don't need it, with the newer pistols having a hammer block. I have one revolver now with a broken hammer block (it fell out one day at the range), fires just fine.
I always carry two extra magazines.
I've seen numerous accidental discharges. And I'm not talking about novice shooters either, mostly people who carry every day and had a brain fart. The law of averages is going to catch up with you some day.
I watched one guy blow his own kneecap off (mostly it was just hanging by a thread of meat).
I've seen or heard about numerous close calls. I'm a firm believer in Murphy's law, whatever can go wrong will go wrong. I plan for worst and hope for the best.
Open carry, that pistol is right at my crotch. It may look funny, but nobody is going to grab it from behind.
Concealed carry, a shoulder holster. High under the armpit is a good spot to be able to clamp that holster down tight with your arm if you have to run any distance. Kind of depends on your build if it will work for you.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 01-25-2016 at 01:10 AM.
01-25-2016, 05:28 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
I suppose the aspect of "high density crowd = potential target" is something to consider. I only go out to malls once a year, within the week before Christmas, and on that trip, I typically find myself taking my G19, SP101, or 1911 Officer with an extra mag or two (or speedloaders). A spree shooter wasn't necessarily on my mind, but rather the risk of groups outside of our malls.
Outside of that one trip to the mall, I've only been to 4 or 5 movies in theatres in about 10yrs. I'm just not in high density areas very often. I'm a lot more often to be found out in the middle of nowhere with a 44mag on my hip than I am to be found lost in a crowd.
Given a more frequent occurrence of high density exposures, I'd probably carry more rounds more often, and maybe a little longer barrel.
However, given my current employment, I do occasionally concern myself with our corporate offices getting hit by some activist while I'm there, but usually these types are spineless and poorly washed, so you can smell them coming, and they don't pose much threat. But... I do violate our corporate policy regularly and carry past the "no beretta's" sign on the door every day I end up at the office.
Outside of that one trip to the mall, I've only been to 4 or 5 movies in theatres in about 10yrs. I'm just not in high density areas very often. I'm a lot more often to be found out in the middle of nowhere with a 44mag on my hip than I am to be found lost in a crowd.
Given a more frequent occurrence of high density exposures, I'd probably carry more rounds more often, and maybe a little longer barrel.
However, given my current employment, I do occasionally concern myself with our corporate offices getting hit by some activist while I'm there, but usually these types are spineless and poorly washed, so you can smell them coming, and they don't pose much threat. But... I do violate our corporate policy regularly and carry past the "no beretta's" sign on the door every day I end up at the office.
01-25-2016, 07:52 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Speaking of the threat. I'm out and about most mornings before 3 A.M.. Once or twice a year I stumble across some sexually frustrated intoxicated or drugged up youngster who gets the wild thought in his mind that old men are easy prey. I figure alcohol and/or drugs and hormones are the main cause.
Most times I manage to out maneuver them, sometimes it turns into a confrontation.
Just last week I popped some drunk right between the eyes with the end of my nightstick.
The weirdest was one morning when some guy (really big) came running out of the darkness towards my Jeep, I slam on the brakes and he jumps up on my hood and makes faces in the windshield. Then runs around to the drivers door, which I got locked just before he grabbed the handle.
Coming out of the eye surgeons into a parking garage, I go to open my door and some guy appears from the front of my Jeep, then I hear a noise behind me. I managed to get in the Jeep faster than even I believed possible and locked the door.
Weirdness only happens once or twice a year, but the law of averages says someday I'm going to get caught napping. And I'm a firm believer in having options. Your usually not in real trouble until you run out of options.
Most times I manage to out maneuver them, sometimes it turns into a confrontation.
Just last week I popped some drunk right between the eyes with the end of my nightstick.
The weirdest was one morning when some guy (really big) came running out of the darkness towards my Jeep, I slam on the brakes and he jumps up on my hood and makes faces in the windshield. Then runs around to the drivers door, which I got locked just before he grabbed the handle.
Coming out of the eye surgeons into a parking garage, I go to open my door and some guy appears from the front of my Jeep, then I hear a noise behind me. I managed to get in the Jeep faster than even I believed possible and locked the door.
Weirdness only happens once or twice a year, but the law of averages says someday I'm going to get caught napping. And I'm a firm believer in having options. Your usually not in real trouble until you run out of options.
01-25-2016, 08:14 PM
#20
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 9,519
I think all these answers really point to a big "IT DEPENDS" If you spend most your time on your farm cutting firewood and feeding the chickens etc you're going to carry differently than somebody who spends their time in the big city. Also it depends on what your goals are, shoot and hide, or if you think you may need to go after the threat to stop it. Many things to consider that can really only be answered by the person who's asking the questions of themselves. I think we can all agree that it is better to carry than to not carry.
-Jake
-Jake
