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Guns Like firearms themselves, there's a wide variety of opinions on what's the best gun.

New hunter needing gun advice.

Old 09-18-2015, 05:00 PM
  #11  
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243 or 270 would be fine for deer. 270 would work for elk but 30-06 or 7mm mag would be better. 243, 270, 308 & 30-06 cost less to shoot. I think the 783 is a good choice it felt just as slick as a Tikka to me and cost a lot less. If you don't like the plastic stock you could get a Boyd's stock and $ total is still less than a Tikka. Later if you decide you want a different caliber 783 barrel can be changed yourself just like a Savage. Savage would be a good choice also.
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:27 AM
  #12  
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Focus your attention on what you KNOW you will hunt, not what you MIGHT hunt someday. And, just a reminder that long-range target shooting is for those who've mastered short-range target shooting first.

Without consideration to the bore, my experience has been that rifle (not pistol) bullets from 100-grains to 150-grains tend to perform best on Deer and Pronghorn, while bullets from 175-grains to 200-grains perform best on Elk, Caribou, and Moose. I don't hunt hogs or bears, so I'm going to leave that one alone. However, If I were to hunt brown bears one day, I'll have something that throws a bullet from 250-grains to 300-grains.

Now, obviously, that leaves you some room. By bore diameter:

A .243 with a 100-grain bullet works well on deer-sized game, but can't throw a heavy enough bullet to really shine as an elk cartridge

A .270 will throw a 130-grain bullet that I've seen work well on deer, and though 150-grain bullets are a little light for elk, I've seen it work, though wouldn't consider it a whole lot better than a .243

A 7mm RM will throw a 140-grain bullet for deer, and a 175-grain bullet for elk. Either of which I've seen to be very effective.

A .30-06 OR a .300 Magnum (Win, Weatherby, H&H, Short-, Ultra-) will all throw a 150 that'll work on deer, although the magnums drive them at such high velocity I don't even consider them when the range is less than 200 yards. They'll all throw everything from 180-grains to 200-grains at elk and work very well at short- and long-range.

Given a bullet of the same BC, the faster you drive it, the farther it's going to go. If you hunt beanfields, you may want to look at a magnum. If you hunt the woods, you're probably going to want to stay away from them.

Rifles are like tools. While you can get by most days around the house with a #2 cross-tip screwdriver (Phillips), there are days when you're going to wish you had a #1 or #3 if you're dealing with small or large jobs. You'd no more want to shoot a .300 magnum at prairie dogs than you'd use a .223 to shoot brown bears. There are two schools of thought though. Pick something in the middle (.30-06 or 7mm RM) and hunt everything with it, accepting its liabilities; or pick something specialized (.243 for deer, .300 for elk) knowing that you're probably going to need a bigger toolbox.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:51 AM
  #13  
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7mm Mag and .308 are so versatile. A large array of small and large bullet grain sizes available to them, more than other calibers you listed. Both will reach-out beyond 300 yards and I personally would choose the 7mm Mag.

Fourteen years ago the 7mm was the new rage with shoppers looking for hunting rifles. I chose a .270 back then and today feel I made the wrong choice. With the 7mm, I can load a 110 grain bullet one day for yotes and 175 grain the next day for elk. The .308 also offers a wide range of bullet sizes.

Last edited by Triple Se7en; 09-19-2015 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:12 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by homers brother
Without consideration to the bore, my experience has been that rifle (not pistol) bullets from 100-grains to 150-grains tend to perform best on Deer and Pronghorn, while bullets from 175-grains to 200-grains perform best on Elk, Caribou, and Moose.
It's really hard to make generalizations for recommended bullet weight for different game species without talking about velocity and bore diameter.

Sectional Density (bullet mass in pounds divided by the diameter squared) is a critical component. A 150grn bullet in .270win is a reasonable elk cartridge, whereas a 150grn 308win is on the light side. Why is that? Because of the difference in sectional density.

Another breakdown in bullet weight for game recommendations is found in velocity. A 200grn pill out of a 45-70 isn't a moose load (bad sectional density AND low velocity). A 150grn bullet out of a 30-30 is a very different round from a 150grn bullet out of a 300win mag.

When you can find a bore diameter and cartridge that combines a good sectional density with a high velocity, but still has an easily tolerated recoil level, THEN you have a real winner.

Originally Posted by JohnJameson
I would like to be able to drop a deer out to 300 yds, and begin to practice at long range target shooting. I might have an opportunity in the future to hunt elk, but for the time being, this gun will be used for whitetail.

I would like to get the most bang for my buck. Could you help me figure out which caliber would be best?

Here are the available [cartridges]:

223 Rem
243 Win
270 Win
308 Win
30-06 Sprg
7mm Rem Mag
300 Win Mag
I'll pontificate your options below, but my recommendation would be to flip a coin between 270win, 308win, and 30-06.

Power: The 223rem is too light for deer, let alone elk, and the 243win is too light for elk, in general. Then at the other end, the 7mm rem mag and 300win mag are just too powerful for deer.

Recoil: Similar to the power comparison above, the 7mm rem mag and 300win mag are a lot of recoil to tolerate just for deer, even so for elk. If you're planning LONG RANGE elk, then sure, those two make sense, but at reasonable ranges, the 270, 308, and 30-06 make the most sense for "bang for the bang," meaning they kill well on the muzzle end without killing on the buttstock end. The 308win and 30-06 might have a bit more recoil than a newbie can tolerate, the 30-06 moreso than the 308win, but they're generally right under the line for tolerance for most folks, whereas the 7mm and 300 are often right OVER the line.

Ammunition cost: The 223rem is cheap, but it's off of the list. 243win is cheap too, but again, off of the list. The 270win, 308win, and 30-06 have similar ammunition costs. The 7mm rem mag and 300win mag tend to have higher ammunition cost, even for the reloader, because they run larger brass and more powder.

Targets: Most target shooting is done from a bench, where high level recoil can really wear on a shooter. Out of the entire list, the 223rem is really the only one that isn't capable of reasonable accuracy at 600-1000yrds, simply because it doesn't have the ballistic advantages of the others. Little bullets don't have good ballistic coefficients, so they shed velocity fast. Managing drop isn't impossible, but the 223rem definitely drops more than the others once you get out at range.

Breaking it down by cartridge:

223 Rem - Not good for deer, elk, or long range targets, cheap to shoot though
243 Win - Ideal for deer, not great for elk (not legal in some states)
270 Win - Great for deer, ok for elk, very moderate recoil, affordable to shoot
308 Win - Very versatile and effective for elk and deer, very affordable to shoot, moderate recoil
30-06 Sprg - Very versatile and effective for elk and deer, very affordable to shoot, tolerable recoil - might be hard on a new shooter
7mm Rem Mag - heavy recoil, too much for deer, great for long range elk, highest ammo cost
300 Win Mag - heaviest recoil, too much for deer, highest ammo cost, great for long range elk

So again, flip a coin between 270win, 308win, and 30-06, you'll be happy.
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:28 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Nomercy448
It's really hard to make generalizations for recommended bullet weight for different game species without talking about velocity and bore diameter.
And yet, is ANY conversation about the performance of particular calibers but an exercise in "generalities"?

The average new hunter isn't familiar with things like Ballistic Coefficients, Sectional Density, etc. and their relationships to the task at hand. How do you reduce the conversation into something that doesn't result in overthinking the problem and complicating what is probably obvious to you and I?

We can throw numbers and science around all day long, but in the end, when that animal walks away from what, in theory, should have put him down, it all goes right out the window. And it happens. Regularly. People have been doing the impossible with inadequate calibers for years. And likewise, people have been failing when, by the numbers, their choice of cartridge should have been a sure thing.

I think I'd probably memorized the velocities and energy numbers in the old Remington catalogs back when I was a kid trying to decide what I wanted to buy. I don't think the internet and technology have made the task any less daunting of late, and with all the "other" choices now also available, it's just that much more confusing. My only intent here was to provide a simpler guideline to help the new hunters make a reasonable choice, absent a lot of tech-speak that some day they might care to understand - or not. "6mm Rem. 100-grain bullet. Good for deer. Too light for elk." ".308 Win. 180-grain bullet. Too heavy for deer. Good for elk."
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Old 09-20-2015, 08:34 AM
  #16  
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Practice, practice, practice......................

Now you have confidence in yourself, and your gun !!!

That dead deer won't care which caliber you were using ?!?!

243 Win
270 Win
308 Win
30-06 Sprg
7mm Rem Mag
300 Win Mag

Last edited by Sheridan; 09-20-2015 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:29 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by JohnJameson
My local gun store is running a special on the Remington 783 scoped rifle. They carry all of the available calibers for the same price, and I'm struggling to figure out what would be best. I would like to be able to drop a deer out to 300 yds, and begin to practice at long range target shooting. I might have an opportunity in the future to hunt elk, but for the time being, this gun will be used for whitetail.

I would like to get the most bang for my buck. Could you help me figure out which caliber would be best?

Here are the available models:

223 Rem
243 Win
270 Win
308 Win
30-06 Sprg
7mm Rem Mag
300 Win Mag

And a link to the model info:
http://www.remington.com/products/fi...83-scoped.aspx
Everything but the .223 will kill deer well and are legal (.223 isn't legal in all states if you decide to hunt out of state). The .243 or .270 are ideal deer caliber rifles and both will work out to and past 300 yards. Any of the 30 calibers and the 7MM Mag will work for elk. You didn't specify which type of target shooting (competition, etc.) you're thinking about. Different types of long range shooting require different calibers, rifles, scopes or iron sights, etc. Have you considered that you may want to have different rifles/calibers for different types of hunting and target shooting?
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:19 PM
  #18  
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My thoughts:

Either a 30-06 or a 308.

30-06 just because there's so many available loadings. 308 because of you want to plink with it you can get FMJ cartridges that are cheaper.
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Old 10-07-2015, 01:57 PM
  #19  
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I would not be afraid to select the .270 - it is suitable for a lot of game. It would be my choice from that list, if I was in your situation.

Personally, I went with a .280, the ballistic sweet spot between the .270 and the 30-06 - in my not so humble opinion ;-)

For elk, I have used my .280, but prefer using a .338.
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Old 11-01-2015, 04:17 PM
  #20  
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.270 or 308 would be my choice.
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