Hill Country custom rifle...UPDATED

[schoolcraft]

Well folks, yet another update....
If you read my last post about ordering my rifle from Hill Country, you may have noticed that I mentioned that I was going back and forth between the 7mm. Rem. Mag. and the .300 Win. Mag. and had decided on the 7mm.

Well....I left Hill Country and as my wife and I had dinner and did some shopping, the "caliber quandry" STILL bothered me.

Since we stayed in 20 min. from Hill Country for the night, I called Matt back this morning and told him I was still second guessing myself about the caliber. I only thing really holding me back from the .300 Winny was all the posts I've read about how it was a considerable step up from the 7mm. in recoil.
I headed back to Hill Country to talk to him a little more about it.

Not only did he discuss the differences in calibers more with me, he took me to their accuracy range. It's a 100 yard underground shooting range. Pretty cool!

They had a "test rifle" in .300 Win. Mag. that was similar to what I was ordering, and he let me shoot it a few times so I could see what the .300 BEAST was really like.....it was NOTHING.

If I had been blindfolded and told I was shooting a 7mm. Rem. Mag., I never would have known the difference.
I was shocked at how little difference there was between the .30-06 and 7 mag. recoil that I was used to!!!

So....I changed my order from a 7mag to the .300 Win. Mag. and did away with the fluting of the barrel.
The rifle I shot was about 9lbs. scoped, and the one I'm ordering will be around 8lbs. scope, so I know that will give me a little difference, but I don't forsee any problems.

I was VERY worried about the scope coming back and catching me over the eye, so I had my wife video me shooting with her cell phone. I wasn't even close to making contact.

This was also a right handed rifle, so the cant and cast off were opposite of what they should be for me, and my stock will have a monte carlo cheekpiece to help with my cheek weld and (I've heard) soak up a LITTLE more felt recoil than a straight stock.

I'm excited all over again!!!

Now....for the scope. We talked and looked a good deal at the Swarovski Z3 model.

Hmmm.....decisions decisions.......

[jerry d]

To me there's a noticeable difference in recoil when i shot 2 identicle rifles in 7mm RM & 300 WM.

[gregrn43]

Originally Posted by jerry d

To me there's a noticeable difference in recoil when i shot 2 identicle rifles in 7mm RM & 300 WM.

Me to, actually quite a bit of difference.

[homers brother]

Guys,

This recoil thing is just getting out of hand. No question, there are differences. But if anyone is so concerned that the recoil of a .300 will be more than they can handle, they need to stick to standards (.30-06, .270, etc.) or their calmer little brothers (.308, 7mm-08, .243).

Psychologically, you're letting the .300 beat you. If you compared recoil between the .30-06 and the 7mm RM, then the 30-06 and the .300 WM, the difference between the 7mm RM and the .300 WM will seem negligible in comparison to the difference between either and the .30-06. And, particularly since you've fired the .300 now, you've felt some of that. I shoot a .375 or a .300 Wby occasionally, and for the life of me I can't remember much about the recoil other than "Yeah, they kick" (but I somehow survived)."

This is just getting silly. If you want to talk recoil, pick up an 8mm RM or a .375 H&H. If worrying about a scope cut or a bruised shoulder is keeping you up at night -- SERIOUSLY -- ditch any thoughts of a belted magnum or short magnum entirely. You're just splitting hairs betwen the .300 WM and 7mm RM worrying about one over the other. If you want .30 caliber, chamber it in .30-06. If you want 7mm/.284 caliber, chamber it in .280.

[jerry d]

Rifle Recoil Table
I'm just saying to me the recoil between the two is noticeable.If you check the chart you'll see there's a difference in recoil between the two. The difference in recoil between the 30-06 & 7mm RM is about identical using a 180g bullet out of the .06 & a 150g out of the 7mm.

With that being said the only guy that was to be comfortable with the recoil is Schoolcraft and if he doesn't notice any increase in recoil that's all that matters.

[homers brother]

Originally Posted by jerry d

I'm just saying to me the recoil between the two is noticeable.If you check the chart you'll see there's a difference in recoil between the two. The difference in recoil between the 30-06 & 7mm RM is about identical using a 180g bullet out of the .06 & a 150g out of the 7mm.

Recoil is a physics problem. Same weight rifle, different caliber, but same weight bullet, driven at the same velocity, the equation will yield the same answer.

Here's some additional data for you to ponder:

Given a 9 lb rifle in all calculations, identical bullet weights, velocity from the test yielding your referenced chart (Chuck Hawks):

.30-06 (150 gr, 2910 fps) 1.94 lbs/sec Free Recoil Impulse

7mm RM (150 gr, 3110 fps): 2.09 lbs/sec Free Recoil Impulse

.300 WM (150 gr, 3290 fps): 2.21 lbs/sec Free Recoil Impulse

Let's experiment a little. If I push the 7mm at 3290, or drop the .300 to 3110, what do you suppose I come up with? Hmmm, the Analyzer I have in LoadBase 3.0 says that the recoil impulse is exactly the same. When same weight bullets are driven at the same velocities, regardless of caliber, the same recoil impulse is generated. It's just physics.

Now, what comes into question in the velocities referenced by Hawk's chart is why thre's nearly 200 fps difference between the 7mm and the .300? Not to mention that a 150-grain bullet isn't exactly a common factory offering in terms of loaded 7mm RM ammunition. I don't have one, likely never will, but is the 7mm RM that much slower than the .300? If that's the case, even more reason to stay with the .30-06, or go the extra for the .300.

Originally Posted by jerry d

With that being said the only guy that was to be comfortable with the recoil is Schoolcraft and if he doesn't notice any increase in recoil that's all that matters.

Unrelated, but in our house we used to have one of those old-fashioned, round Honeywell thermostats with the needle that pointed to a hard-to-read scale that told us what temperature the furnace was set at. Rarely did my wife complain.

One day we replaced that antique with a newer, DIGITAL thermostat that told us PRECISELY what the temperature was set out. Now, my wife is suddenly "too cold" or "too warm" all the time, but voila! Set the temp scale up or down a couple of degrees one way or the other and now she's comfortable.

My point is this: Sometimes knowing the numbers only makes problems. This chart's been floating around for awhile, and applied to this instance, about all it's going to do is reinforce to Schoolcraft that the .300 WM, rifle, and loads in whatever test developed this chart recoiled more than the 7mm RM did. Introducing it at this juncture in Schoolcraft's decision cycle only serves to muddy the waters as, by your own admission, his comfort is the only factor that matters.

My advice to Schoolcraft: You managed to survive those extra ft/lbs of recoil with the demo rifle. Select an optic with proper eye relief, mount it correctly, and stay with the .300.

[Ridge Runner]

300 does run faster with the same weight bullet than a 7mm, its larger diameter and extra .1" of case length gives it the advantage, you could prolly measure the diff in recoil, but don't think you could feel it.
RR

[warbirdlover]

You can catch a scope over your eye shooting a 30-06. If you tilt your forehead down (forward) it puts your eye closer to the scope. I always think about "sticking my chin out" when shooting a scoped rifle and over the years, shooting the big kickers, none have ever nailed my over my eye.

[fritz1]

I always wonder when people are talking how hard a particular cartridge kicks, like the 300 Win mag. and they are worring about it having too much recoil, just makes me wonder, what kind of shotgun are you shooting? I havnt looked it up on the recoil charts but to me a 12 gauge shot out of a pump, or a double barrel kicks way harder than ANY 300 mag. Just saying!

[jerry d]

Originally Posted by fritz1

I always wonder when people are talking how hard a particular cartridge kicks, like the 300 Win mag. and they are worring about it having too much recoil, just makes me wonder, what kind of shotgun are you shooting? I havnt looked it up on the recoil charts but to me a 12 gauge shot out of a pump, or a double barrel kicks way harder than ANY 300 mag. Just saying!

I believe your right Fritz but it's a little different when your shooting a rifle.Shot placement is more critical,you're squeezing the trigger as aposed to "slapping" the trigger which gives you more time to anticapate the recoil.......henceforth the possiblity of developing a "flinch"