I've noticed on the boards a couple points causing heated debates, just want to offer my experiences and opinionswondering zero's: seems everbody wants to blame the scope for it, the results of my work has proved to me that if a rifle loses its zero it is 85% of the time contributed to the rifle and mostly poor bedding at that, once in awhile its a flimsey stock, rarely its the springs in the erector tube just shifting as they set there from year to year in the same position. I have several rifles that are pillar and glass bedded, I almost never have to readjust to get them zero'd in, the AR's with the FFT's are the same way. a savage 99, a ruger #1, and my daughters savage 110 have never been touched, yes they need a click now and then, and I am 100% certain that glass bedding and properly floated barrels will make them much more consistant, I've proven it to myself and others too many times.scopes that will not trackHow can you expect a scope to track in true 1/4 MOA adjustments if you never move them to let all the pressures on the springs equalize? how do you get them to track properly? you use them, alot, if you don't need to use them alot, why complain when they don't move with absolute precision? spring tension changes over time as it sets there under the same ressure, but not much you can really do about it in most instances. In you detachable mags you unload them in the off season to save the springs correct? most folks make sure they're rifles aren't ****ed to preserve the springs right? but ya wanna complain about scopes cause they set around with the springs under stress 24/7 year around, then you make one adjustment click and your surprised when the reticle doesn't move. Do any of you know how far the reticle has to move to change POI 1/4 MOA at 100 yards? its like .0035" or less. I dial my scopes on some of my ifles alot and trust me, the more ya spin them the better they work if you have a quality unit. My latest example of how thing work if you use quality equipmentThis group was shot on 11/14/2010, testing a new LR load for my 6.5 gibbs, 62.7 gr retumbo behind a 140 berger with fed 210's and win 270 cases. Rifle was zeroed for 300 yards, I set my dope for current conditions and dialed in a 750 yard zero and fired 3 shots at a target that ranged 752 yards, here is that target your welcome to call me out if you have trouble believing it, the group measures around .04 MOARR
The guns that I have trouble holding zero are guns that are usually totally disassembled when cleaned, such as my muzzleloader or slug gun (cantilever scoped).
They are usually not off more than 1 or 2MOA every year, but I know its because I unbedded them. Muzzleloaders can be hard to consistently bed due to the ramrod. And I don't worry much about it, because I generally stay under 150yards with one.
Slugguns like semi 1187's just the nature of the beast I figure. But hopefully cure that with a new A-bolt sluggun this year.
Don't forget even an excellent tracking scope doesn't make up for the guy yanking on the trigger either...
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I'll Bite. Ridge Runner while I think you are an above average shooter and do bring a tremendous wealth of knowledge to this forum and you certainly posted an impressive target. A target to be proud of forever. But to suggest, by asking to call you out, that you can print a target like that on a regular basis is bit more than I can handle. The IBS 600 yard record is .711" for a 5 shot group. Granted that’s a 5 shot group but it is 150 yards closer than your 3 shot group. What is your average group size at 750 yards for 10 groups? I think 3 inches is a bit more realistic, keep in mind, average. I might even go to 2.5". I like 5 shot groups, it just adds a little more challenge.
Please do not take this post as a personal attack; I'm just looking for a good discussion. I am very familiar with the 6.5 Gibbs and also have a gun chambered by Ray Romain; He is a heck of a gunsmith. I too shoot a lot of long distance with a variety of calibers.
you nailed it gunner, 2.5-3" is my average, I really won't even take credit for that group, it just happened, but it did happen, and its framed beside the pic of my 1350 yd whitetail kill. I know I'll never do this again, but I did it once, thats enough I guess, to keep me motivated, and keep me out slingin lead on sundays instead of watching nascar.RR
edited to add: I shoot only 3 shot groups mostly to preserve my barrels, my main interest is the cold bore shot and the followup second shot if needed, my main LR hunting rifle burns a 110 gr powder charge so I am kinda leery of the longer shot strings.I don't shoot formal competition, I just hunt at extreme range so what I can't do with 3 shots won't get done with 5.
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Last edited by Ridge Runner; 11-30-2010 at 03:16 PM.
RR, Whats your main LR hunting rifle? 110 grains is a lot, 338-378? Ray built me a 300 Tomahawk, 300 RUM improved, a real tack driver with a #5 contour barrel, 3 shot groups is it's limit too. A 240 grain SMK with 95 grains of WC872 pushes them 2860fps. I get more MV with H50 BMG but the groups suffer bad. 700 yard groups are right with your 6.5 Gibbs.
I thought I was the only sick SOB that framed targets
MO on a couple shooting myths
your welcome to call me out if you have trouble believing it, the group measures around .04 MOARR
