Well I took my 8x57 JS scout rifle to the range on Sunday shot some S&B 196gr SPCE through it and had to beat the bolt back with a rubber mallet to extract the case. I shot around 15 rounds and it got easier to extract, but still nowhere near right. This is the first time I had any problems with it, also the first time a shoot S&B instead of reloads. I had the chamber and bore cleaned by a licensed gun smith at Gander MTN. Had him check the headspace as I usually do, the gun being made in 1948. Ankara Turkish Mauser modified large ring. The thing that is weird is he did this BEFORE I had the problem. I shoot some reloads, same I shoot last year and it did the same thing. Also ther was a small impression by the shoulder always in the same place in the brass. The OAL leangth of the fired brass seems to have grown more than one would expect. I' m thinking that the throat is shot out [:' (]or the chamber is pitted[] either way I think I will have to sell this rifle[X(]
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Aim Straight,
NBH
" If guns cause crime......mine are defective" ----Ted
Nugent
" Fast is fine......accurate is final "
NRA Life Member
1. Have the chamber checked by the same smith and tell him what your seeing. Take some of that spent brass so he can see it.
2. If it is determined that the chamber is the problem but the bore is still good, consider having it reamed to 8mm/06, an easy conversion that allows you to load from easily available 30/06 brass. If you can find a smith that already owns the reamer it won' t cost very much. Certainly lway less than a new barrell job.
I hope you can figure out the problem without modification, b/c the 8X57 round is a fine cartridge.
- the chamber might be pitted. Having the chamber cleaned means that all of the fouling and brass that filled these pits are gone and now ehn you fire the rifle, the brass flows into the pits, locking it into the chamber. It will get better with more shooting as brass is rubbed off into the sharp edges of the pits slicking them up a little.
-Ammo- European ammo makers often load well beyond SAAMI specs, especially S&B. Sticking with milder handloads may reduce the problem.
-excessive headspace- did the gunsmith pass the headspace with the proper no-go guage or with a longer field guage? Did he use the correct headspace guages? there are two different types of 8x57 headspace guages with different shoulder angles. Is there a shiny ring on the brass near the case head? Its not always a sign of excessive headspace, but atleast a sign of increased headspace. Bend a straightened paperclip into an ' L' shape and use it to feel the inside of 10 or so fired cases. if you feel a groove in any of the cases at the casehead, do not fire the rifle until you take it to a competant gunsmith to have it checked- I' m not nocking Gander Mountain, but I' ve seen a variety of of levels of talent and knowledge when it come to gunsmiths who work in their stores.
You can sometimes fix headspace problems on turks by buying a few differenrt bolts and checking the headspace with them in the receiver- You can find bolts on Ebay or at milsurpshooter.net for under $10.
-if you fail to find any problems, don' t clean the chamber for awhile and see if the condition improves, otherwise shoot milder handloads.
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The original 8x57J did have a .318" bore, the modernized 8x58JS has the .323" bore.
A k.Kale model 38 turk is chambered for 8x57 JS. Its a large ring model 98 threaded for a small ring barrel.
Neweboarhunter- if this rifle wears its original barrel, 198 gr. bullets might not be the best choice anyway. These rifles had a twist rate for stabilizing 154gr. bullets. Usually later mauser Carbines such as Kar 98' s and G33/40' s are better suited for 198 gr bullets. The load that seems to work for me in just about every mauser I own is 50 gr 4064, 170 gr hornady RN bullets, and remington brass.
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Obamanfreude - 1. taking pleasure from the misfortunes of an Obama supporter as he or she is adversely affected by the policies of their Dear Leader.
Vapodog, Thanks for the warning but, the rifle is .323 diameter. IT IS a 8x57 JS, check out Lymans reloading book. The point you brought up is VERY important I have heard of people using rimmed 8mm cartridges in the 8x57 JS.
Briman, Thanks for the bullet weight imput it was my understanding that the classic loading was 196gr. The rifle shoot 196gr FMJ S&B well last year. It does not like this 196gr SPCE S&B. What velocity levels doe you like to run in this cartridge?
__________________
Aim Straight,
NBH
" If guns cause crime......mine are defective" ----Ted
Nugent
" Fast is fine......accurate is final "
NRA Life Member
198 gr loadings were brought about when carbines were starting to be made for military applications based on the model 98 action. The original 8x57 JS loading was similar to what you get with Turkish surplus ammo: 154 gr spitzer @ approximately 2950 fps. When the Germans shortened up their gewehr 98 design they found that such loading gave too much of a muzzle blast and even a fireball which is no good for a military rifle. They switched to the 198 gr loads to reduce muzzle blast and get better accuracy out of the 23" barrels on the Kar 98 rifles versus the older 29.5" gewehr barrels. The 198 gr loads were spec' d somewhere around 2600 fps.
The loads I shoot I believe are around 2700 fps with 170 gr bullets, I' m completely sure, but I' ll check my notebook when I get home tonight or tomorow.
Oh yeah, and don' t forget the 8x56R cartridge used in manlicher carbines also- an 8mm rimmed cartridge. Pretty rare stuff, was used in WWII by some German and conscript units, most has nazi headstamps- not to be confused with 8x57JS.
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Obamanfreude - 1. taking pleasure from the misfortunes of an Obama supporter as he or she is adversely affected by the policies of their Dear Leader.
150 gr. bullets should work just fine. I haven' t tried them in my Turk, but they shoot really well in my 98/22 and 98/29. I cannot remember what load I used for them though, I used 4064 for powder, others have told me that 3031 works even better for 150 gr bullets in the 8x57, but I haven' t had much time to experiment with 150 grainers in the last year.
__________________
Obamanfreude - 1. taking pleasure from the misfortunes of an Obama supporter as he or she is adversely affected by the policies of their Dear Leader.
8x57 JS chamber problems?
] either way I think I will have to sell this rifle[X(]
