Are 200 yd slug guns ethical to dispatch a deer?

[Happy Pappy]

Hi guys... usually watch the crossbow section but I have a question.... I keep hearing companies talk about 200 yard performance out of their slug guns. When Remington first came out with copper solids ('92?) , I went out and bought an 11-87 rifled slug barrel. It was deadly accurate... opening morning I had a nice 8 point and doe standing out in the middle of a field, feeling real safe. The where out there for 1/2 hour and would not budge... I guessed the range at 150 yards (I shot a lot of wood chucks and knew my yardages pretty close - stepped it off at 151 long steps afterwards) I took a deep breathe and let one fly. (aimed 12" above deers back) Buck humped his back and took off... I didn't think I hit it. It ran into the woods and I followed about 5 mins later... there is was standing there with it's mouth wide open trying to catch his breath. I sat down and waited him out... after 20 minsI gave him a finishing shotas he was about to jumpinto a deep, cold creek. Upon gutting him, I found the copper solid hit him in the arm pit just behind the heart. (I consider myself a very good shot, but I must admit it wasa prettylucky shot) The pedals did not open up or break off... the slug looked brand new like it was pulled out of the shell. It went into the first lung and did notget into the2nd lung.If I wouldn't have given him that 2nd shot, who knows how long he would have lived like that? How can these slug companies tell us with confidence theserifled barrelguns and slugs are 200 yard performers? Interested in hearing your thoughts. Jeff in Ohio

[DeerandbearhoG]

Some guys will tell you they regularly are getting out there 150-200yds kills on deerand getting 1.5" @100yds groups but that has not been my experience. I could never get better than 3-4" groups, at best, from several guns and sabots . IMO SG sabots are just too thick to shed consistently, for any type of real accuracy and the velocities claims are down right lies. I cronied SSTs and win partion gold a couple years ago from a USH and a deerslayerII and the SSTs didnt do better than 1700fps ,not 2000fps. Maybe in the companies 30" test barrels, but not a 20-24" barrel. At 15$ a box of 5, there hardly econmical to practice w/ either and my shoulder agrees.

IMO a shotgun is 100-125yd max tool. For longer range hunting in rifle restricted areas I use my muzzleloader.

[Ridge Runner]

most will say no, but I say go for it, course I get flamed pretty often here wait till you read my post on the deer I shot today.
RR

[Troutman10]

I feel that if the bullet doesn't dispatch or perform as it should then someone might want to think twice about shooting distances of 200 yards. We don't need wounded deer running around. I personally would consider about a 125 yard shot the farthest I would take with my 20 gauge USHD. I am going to try a few other brands this spring/summer coming up to see what happens compared to what I'm using now. I might consider something a little slower in speed if it's a little more accurate than what I've used this season. We'll see.

I've heard of some bad instances of deer being shot around 200 yards and nothing good from it. I'm sure it can be done, but I feel that 200 yards fits the capability of a rifle rather than a shotgun.

[kodiakhuntmaster]

I've seen it done before, but I would think 200 yards is just about the max and pushing what a shotgun to do to the limits. The shotgun is probably the most versatile gun out there but everything has it's limitations and it's just not a great platform for anything really long range as of yet. Rest assured that there are ammo specialists out there working on that everyday.

[stalkingbear]

While I respect your extensive ballistic knowledge,practice,and setups,and I would fight to defend however anybody likes to hunt(as long as ethnical),I can't agree with you for 2 reasons on your particular style of "hunting". #1 is the fact that you are shooting-mere test of being able to hit the deer-however much you put into it,to ME,it's NOT hunting-just shooting. That don't mean you shouldn't have the right to hunt in your particular style,BUT there's too much of a chance of that deer moving slightly in that 1/2 second (rough guesstimate) or so it takes that bullet to get there. The other reason is that even tho YOU spend all year practicing,honing yopur long range skill and fine tuning setup,while it's not a question for YOU,what you're doing is exposing all the young,impressionable nimrods to extreme long range shooting and encouraging them to do same,even tho they don't invest for success like you do. Yes,you a hellova great shot,and I admire you for your commitment,NO,you don't hunt-just shoot long range. Sorry if that offends you but that's MY thoughts in a nutshell.

ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner
most will say no, but I say go for it, course I get flamed pretty often here wait till you read my post on the deer I shot today.
RR

[bigbulls]

It depends on the exactslug being usedand the person pulling the trigger. There are some slugs made today that, assuming they are accurate enough in a particular gun, will have more than enough energy and penetration at 200 yards. The problem may be getting itwhere it is suppose to go.

A few examples are......
Winchester Partition gold. A 385 grain, 45 caliberNosler partition at aprox 2000 fps.
Winchester XP3 slug. A 300 grain, 45 caliber XP3 bullet at aprox 2100 fps.
Remington new accutip slug. 385 grain polimer tipped slug at aprox 1900 fps.
Remongton core lokt ultra. 385 grain bonded bullet at aprox 1900 fps.
Hornady SST slugs. 300 grain SST bullet at aprox 2000 fps.
Federal Barnes tipped expander. A tipped Barnes bullet at aprox 1900 fps.

Allof the slugs I listed will have energy and penetration to spare at 200 yards.




However, I believe that those Barnes hollow pointslugsmight have a problem not opening up. This certainly isn't the first reportI have heard of this happening with Barnes slugs. A co-worker of mine had nearly the exact same experience as you did with the Barnesslugs.

Hewent to illinois last year on a slug hunt. He also used the Barnes slugs but from from Federal instead of Remington. He managed to take about a 3 year old 10 point. He brought back a nearly perfectly intact slug that he removed from the deer. The only thing wrong with this slug was oneside of the hollow pointwas bent inward thus making a smaller hollow point. No expansion what so ever.... in fact just the opposite. The nose of the bullet got smaller. I think that these bullets just might be a little too tough to reliably expand on animals. I think thatI would rather use a lead core slug instead of the Barnes slugs at these velocities.

[Ridge Runner]

ORIGINAL: stalkingbear

While I respect your extensive ballistic knowledge,practice,and setups,and I would fight to defend however anybody likes to hunt(as long as ethnical),I can't agree with you for 2 reasons on your particular style of "hunting". #1 is the fact that you are shooting-mere test of being able to hit the deer-however much you put into it,to ME,it's NOT hunting-just shooting. That don't mean you shouldn't have the right to hunt in your particular style,BUT there's too much of a chance of that deer moving slightly in that 1/2 second (rough guesstimate) or so it takes that bullet to get there. The other reason is that even tho YOU spend all year practicing,honing yopur long range skill and fine tuning setup,while it's not a question for YOU,what you're doing is exposing all the young,impressionable nimrods to extreme long range shooting and encouraging them to do same,even tho they don't invest for success like you do. Yes,you a hellova great shot,and I admire you for your commitment,NO,you don't hunt-just shoot long range. Sorry if that offends you but that's MY thoughts in a nutshell.

Your right bear, guess if I were a true hunter I'd set 4 stands within 50 yards of a well used deer trail and set in the one downwind that day, now thats hunting!
or watch a big pile of corn from a true hunting distance of about 200 yards.
Do I need to put a do not try this at home disclaimer on my posts to keep guys from trying to do what I do without the preparation? I mean isn't a big part of hunting staying within ones own capabilities?
you think it isn't hunting? how many places do you know right off the top of your head where you can shoot that kind of distance and the deer will co-operate, and.... you can legaly hunt there? I do the legwork, way more than you think.
The deer can move with the bullet in flight, it takes a little knowledge of deer and knowing what they are going to do within the next second by watching they're body language.
You seem to think its just see them range them and let her fly, doesn't happen that way.

And IIRC, isn't this the guy who was developeing the extensive line of wildcats based on the 375 ruger for LR hunting? what happened to that?
I'm not offended I'm used to it, about anyone who doesn't understand what or how I do what I do crys foul. But I "hunt" legaly, ethicly, and take pride in it. I've used this rifle which is properly set up for what I do for 3 seasons now, I've shot at 16 deer with it from 307 to 985 yards, 14 of those were put in the freezer, the other 2 both clean misses were at 785 and 985 yardss
When the compound bow came around, and doubled the distance an average bowhunter can take a deer it was cool, when the inline muzzleloader came to be and extended the ML hunters range to over 200 yards it was awesome, let a guy figure out how well a modern rifle can effectively take game and most folks have a problem with it.
Happy sorry to hi-jack your thread for my own defense, but see I told ya so!
RR

[.25MOA]

First to keep from further hi-jacking of the thread, I will say my personal opinion you should try to keep the slugs inside 150 yds for accuracy considerations more so than power or expansion. As deerbearhog said, Ive personally never fired a slug gun with accuracy capabilities that extended past the aforementioned range, and most probably should have been kept to 25 or 50 less than that. Just my crappy .02

On the last few posts....I think this discussion, and why Ridge seems to catch so much flak here, is the paradigm difference between when a shooter chooses to hunt and when a hunter is forced to become a shooter to accomplish his task. The level of dedication by each to their chosen tenant is obvious when you hear either one speak on the subject. I know guys who spend more time in the off season in the woods than I do in season, and their kill ratio and trophy wall reflect such. At the same time, I spend more time and ammo in 2 range sessions than they will spend in 10 yrs checking their sight in, which is the extent of their "practice" each year. And our respective shooting capabilities reflect such. One should not be so centristic or egotistical of his prefered art as to look down his nose at the anothers simply because he doesn't understand it or abide by it. They both have their place.

-Note... God help when you have a man lucky enough to have to the time to combine the two above mentioned philosophies, he will truly be a force to be reckoned with in the woods.

[liquidorange]

i shot 2 deer with the barnes. both were at 80-100 yards. i had pass throughs with good blood. they didnt go more than 50 yards with the federal barnes. i use the 2 3/4 12 guage. the hornady sst-s grouped the same but kicked harder.