Does velocity really matter for DRT performance?

[schoolcraft]

Ok....first of all....I've got GOBBS of balistics knowledge....been glued to Shooters Bibles and reloading manuals since I was 13.

What I don't have much of is "in the field" experience on game. I'm 32 and have taken about 10 deer and maybe a dozen hogs in my hunting career. Harly enough to call myself experienced. So, I'd like to draw on some of the more experienced hunters out there about how velocity effects the terminal performance on game. I know this has been highly debated for decades, but I would still enjoy hearing some of YOUR opinions.

I suppose all the marketing has worked on me since I've grown up thinking a "hyper velocity" lighter bullet would put an animal down faster than a slower moving heavier bullet, but I don't have enough game under my belt to say that's what I believe.

My hunting style includes hunting in deer stands and stalking. Even though there are POTENTIAL long shots (250-300 yards) where I hunt, I've never had to shoot past 150 yards. Most shots have been at about half that distance. So, tragectory for super long shots isn't that big of an issue for me.

I know DRT performance on game is mostly about shot PLACEMENT, but I'm just wondering if you had a behind the shoulder lung shot on a deer/hog if anyone has seen a difference in performance from higher velocity bullets vs. lower velocity bullets.

Hope I'm not opening up a can of worms with this, but opinions and personal experiences would be appreciated

[corey012778]

I don't have a whole lot of experienced. I have gone away from hunting with an 06 to ML. thought about bow hunting just to make my season longer. where I hunt I am lucky to have 100yrds clear area. so I don't even think of anything over 100yrds.

slow or fast my thinking is

100% shot PLACEMENT

[Swampdog]

If you take out the central nervous system it don't matter if you use a dull stick,It's going down right there.JMHO


Shot placement x2

[Ridge Runner]

ok, I've taken over 200 deer with everything from a 22 LR to 458 Socom, and my experience is this, ya want DRT, use a med. weight for caliber high expansion bullet at high velocity and hit the point of most resistance, the scapula (shoulder blade). what happens is this, at bullet impact before the bone gives way to penetration the shoulder blade is pushed against the ribs causing the ribs to flex, this in turn leads to what we call liquid displacement, this violently moves everything around away from the point of impact (POI) asthe shock wave of the bullet striking solid bone causes blood to be pushed through the major blood vessels, towards the animals head the blood is going backwards through the veins, and accelerated in the right direction through the arteries, when these elevated blood pressures hit the brainstem it overwhelms the CNS causing all systems to shut down, NOW, this occurs at about the same time the shock wave hits the brain, so its good night irene, immediately after this the bullet is ripping through the vital organs delivering the blow which officialy ends the animals life.
RR

[nchawkeye]

I've killed about 300 deer...If you shoot them in the lungs you won't see much difference in how far they run whether you shoot them with a broadhead, slug from a shotgun, roundball from a .54 flintlock, saboted bullet from a .50 caliber inline or a .243 - 30-06...Lung shot deer bleed to death and usually run 30-80 yards from the shot...In fact, one time my brother and I both shot the same doe through the lungs, him with a 130gr Sierra GameKing with his .270 and me with a 100gr Sierra GamdKing with my .243...This doe still sprinted about 75 yards before she fell...So it's not just the size hole that you put through the lungs that puts them down quicker...

It's always amazed me that deer shot through the lungs with a broadhead drop as quick as they do...Sometimes as close as 30 yards and never further than 80-90 if hit properly...

To drop them on the spot, I put a bullet through the shoulder blade, the spine lies behind the shoulder blade so that paralizes them and puts them down...I've done this many times with a round ball, saboted muzzleloader bullet, shotgun slug and my .243...

[eldeguello]

Does velocity really matter for DRT performance?


Not nearly as much as correct shot placement. Of course, the bullet has to have SOME velocity to have any effect at all, but the advantage to high velocities comes mainly from it's contribution to easier hitting (flat trajectories).

[SwampCollie]

ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner

ok, I've taken over 200 deer with everything from a 22 LR to 458 Socom, and my experience is this, ya want DRT, use a med. weight for caliber high expansion bullet at high velocity and hit the point of most resistance, the scapula (shoulder blade). what happens is this, at bullet impact before the bone gives way to penetration the shoulder blade is pushed against the ribs causing the ribs to flex, this in turn leads to what we call liquid displacement, this violently moves everything around away from the point of impact (POI) asthe shock wave of the bullet striking solid bone causes blood to be pushed through the major blood vessels, towards the animals head the blood is going backwards through the veins, and accelerated in the right direction through the arteries, when these elevated blood pressures hit the brainstem it overwhelms the CNS causing all systems to shut down, NOW, this occurs at about the same time the shock wave hits the brain, so its good night irene, immediately after this the bullet is ripping through the vital organs delivering the blow which officialy ends the animals life.
RR

Yeah that pretty much sums it up.

I've lost count of how many deer I have shot between hunting and crop damage tags. I'm sure its over 100, and maybe even pushing 150.... hogs probably number in the 40s or 50s (with a gun).

I'm a scapula shooter by and large, although we use the high neck and head shot on some crop damage does, and just aft of the ear, slightly low is my spot of choice on hogs dang near always.

Like RR wrote, I've shot deer with everything from .17s to .330s, 12ga shotguns and .50cal muzzleloaders. My experience, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. You hit that shoulder squarely on the blade and the back feet will fold up and the whole deer will flop just like it laid down for a nap.

If you are just shooting behind the shoulder for heart lung shots, then I suspect that you can follow one of two routes.... light and fast or slow and heavy. Both will give you a fair amount of displacement, but we all debated heatedly over an OL article someone posted up a few months ago about Cape Buffalo and how they reacted to the shot. It was found that the stage of the cardiovascular cycle an animal was in at the time of impact had more to do with one shot, DRT kills when the nervous system was a non-factor than anything else. So unless you have a scope with an EKG monitor, you might as well put your money on the scapula.

[schoolcraft]

just for my own info, could anyone post a picture of a whitetail deer and/or hog showing exactly where a bullet would need to be placed fora scapula shot?

I'm thinking a little further forward and higher than the "lung shot". Maybe slightly behind where the neck meets the body?

Any pics would be appreciated

[nchawkeye]

On a broadside deer, straight up the leg, about 1/3 of the way below the back line will put it through the shoulder blade...

[RugerM77.270]

Here you go.