25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
03-14-2008, 11:53 AM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: 25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
"Siblings", is that the best you can come up with?? Wow man that is a pretty weak argument. "Siblings".
OldElk by bullet construction I am speaking of a heavier jacket because of the larger diameter. IMO this heavier jacket is what makes the big difference. Again IMO this is why premium bullets are made. The jacket in the lighter caliber's is not as thick and allows for more rapid expansion. The way bullet design was explained to me was that a thicker jacket would hold together better and allow more penetration. Again IMO this is why you have premium bullets-the premium bullets are "supposed" to be of better constructin, so they will hold together better for better penetration. I am sure you have heard of light, fast, small caliber bullets blowing up on a shoulder. I realize part of this is bullet tip design. But a lot of it has to do with the jacket to allow further penetration.
That is why I believe a $10 box of 30-06 shels with a plain old core-lock bullet is a better choice than a $40 box of Federal Premium in a 243. Plus you can buy 4 boxes of ammo instead of one, soa new shooter can get out and practice.
Far the average hunter who never shoots over 200 yards, and almost always less than 100 yards, the bigger slower bullet is better. And if recoil is an issue then slow the large bullet down some more, and you can attain recoil equilibrium with a larger bullet.
I recommend you start casting your own bullets. You can slow down a cast bullet, get great expansion and penetration, attain low recoil, and have a blast making your own bullets. It is a hoot when you make everything yourself and hunt with it. A 45-70 at 1200 fps has low recoil, the bullet is deadly on deer, and as stated long ago-"You can eat right up to the hole". Tom.
OldElk by bullet construction I am speaking of a heavier jacket because of the larger diameter. IMO this heavier jacket is what makes the big difference. Again IMO this is why premium bullets are made. The jacket in the lighter caliber's is not as thick and allows for more rapid expansion. The way bullet design was explained to me was that a thicker jacket would hold together better and allow more penetration. Again IMO this is why you have premium bullets-the premium bullets are "supposed" to be of better constructin, so they will hold together better for better penetration. I am sure you have heard of light, fast, small caliber bullets blowing up on a shoulder. I realize part of this is bullet tip design. But a lot of it has to do with the jacket to allow further penetration.
That is why I believe a $10 box of 30-06 shels with a plain old core-lock bullet is a better choice than a $40 box of Federal Premium in a 243. Plus you can buy 4 boxes of ammo instead of one, soa new shooter can get out and practice.
Far the average hunter who never shoots over 200 yards, and almost always less than 100 yards, the bigger slower bullet is better. And if recoil is an issue then slow the large bullet down some more, and you can attain recoil equilibrium with a larger bullet.
I recommend you start casting your own bullets. You can slow down a cast bullet, get great expansion and penetration, attain low recoil, and have a blast making your own bullets. It is a hoot when you make everything yourself and hunt with it. A 45-70 at 1200 fps has low recoil, the bullet is deadly on deer, and as stated long ago-"You can eat right up to the hole". Tom.
03-14-2008, 12:02 PM
#52
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: From Texas but now reside in MS
Posts: 823
RE: 25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
Well apparently you don't like Siblings but whatever you call them fact remains. But to clarifya 7mm08 with a 120 grain bullet will kick less than a 150 grain bullet shot out of the same gun.. That was my point..
03-14-2008, 12:08 PM
#53
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 6,471
RE: 25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
The jacket in the lighter caliber's is not as thick and allows for more rapid expansion. The way bullet design was explained to me was that a thicker jacket would hold together better and allow more penetration. Again IMO this is why you have premium bullets-the premium bullets are "supposed" to be of better constructin, so they will hold together better for better penetration. I am sure you have heard of light, fast, small caliber bullets blowing up on a shoulder. I realize part of this is bullet tip design. But a lot of it has to do with the jacket to allow further penetration.
03-14-2008, 12:26 PM
#54
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: 25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
ORIGINAL: oldelkhunter
Not sure if there is a correlation between lightweight Deer Bullets and larger caliber deer bullets as far as jacket thickness goes ..I guess I will have to get out the bandsaw and cut some up. .I do know for a fact that I can get stoutly built 257 bullets from at least 4 sources if not more and all will not hand grenade on a deers shoulder or other area of resistance. Another relevant point is Deer are thin skinned animals ..break the skin and even a bullet that is pronte to separating will penetrate sufficiently to cause massive internal damage at the same time delivering shock to internal organs. NOw if we talk Elk or similiar sized creatures then you have less room for error in the bullet selection process.
The jacket in the lighter caliber's is not as thick and allows for more rapid expansion. The way bullet design was explained to me was that a thicker jacket would hold together better and allow more penetration. Again IMO this is why you have premium bullets-the premium bullets are "supposed" to be of better constructin, so they will hold together better for better penetration. I am sure you have heard of light, fast, small caliber bullets blowing up on a shoulder. I realize part of this is bullet tip design. But a lot of it has to do with the jacket to allow further penetration.
I have seen a lot of hunter's and shooter's over the years spend tons of money on all the new fangled cartridge's and bullets. But a hunter can fall back on a good quality rifle in 30-06 with good optics and never have to look back for the rest of his life. This setup can be used everwhere in the USA for almost all NA game. They can buy ammo anywhere, and for a good price. That is about as simple as I can put it. Tom.
03-14-2008, 12:31 PM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: 25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
ORIGINAL: cjwink
Well apparently you don't like Siblings but whatever you call them fact remains. But to clarifya 7mm08 with a 120 grain bullet will kick less than a 150 grain bullet shot out of the same gun.. That was my point..
Well apparently you don't like Siblings but whatever you call them fact remains. But to clarifya 7mm08 with a 120 grain bullet will kick less than a 150 grain bullet shot out of the same gun.. That was my point..
03-14-2008, 12:35 PM
#56
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: From Texas but now reside in MS
Posts: 823
RE: 25-06 and its effectiveness on Deer
ORIGINAL: HEAD0001
Now I will have to agree with you on that one. But that is not what you said the first time. As far as the "Siblings", I did not mean anything by that remark, and apologize if you felt that I did. I actually thought it was meant as a joke, and I did get a good laugh from it. I also did not pick up on the point you were making about the same case-but you are correct there. Sorry, Tom.
ORIGINAL: cjwink
Well apparently you don't like Siblings but whatever you call them fact remains. But to clarifya 7mm08 with a 120 grain bullet will kick less than a 150 grain bullet shot out of the same gun.. That was my point..
Well apparently you don't like Siblings but whatever you call them fact remains. But to clarifya 7mm08 with a 120 grain bullet will kick less than a 150 grain bullet shot out of the same gun.. That was my point..
