Sidearm for grizzly country revisited

[wyotimberghost]

I appologize if it seems I'm beating a dead horse with this one, but I think it's a fascinating subject.

Since the last thread, I've been doing a lot of researching and asking around, and recently I talked to a fellow backpacker/hunter who had some interesting thoughts on the subject. He said whenever he is backpacking in grizz country in the lower 48, he carries a .357 Magnum with a 4" barrel loaded with hard cast bullets. His reasoning is that grizzlies in the rocky mountains are nowhere near the size of the coastal brown bears in AK that everyone thinks about when the subject of bear defense arises. He said A .357 will kill a bear no probelm provided the proper load, and a .357 is lighter and more compact than it's bigger bore counter parts, and thus much more easy to pack and draw. He also said that the .357 is much easier and cheaper to practice with, and thus a person is more likely to become proficient with a .357 than the larger cartridges.

Also, as someone mentioned before, experienced Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker recommends the .357 Magnum loaded with 180 grain hard casts for grizzlies.

The more I think about it, the more I think he may be on to something. I looked, and Buffalo Bore has a .357 Magnum load pushing 180 grain hard cast bullets at 1400 fps and 783 fpe. It seems to me that such a load should have no problem penetrating bone, and a shot anywhere other than the vitals/central nervous system with a 44 or 454 will do no more to stop a bear than a 357. One would think that a good hit to the vitals or CNA with a hard cast bullet from a 357 would kill a bear just as dead as a 44 or 454.

I looked at the Taurus 454SS5M that several members recommended last time, and while it looks like an outstanding pistol, it's 10.5" long and weighs 51 oz. That seems awfully heavy and a little big to me. A .357 with a 4" barrel would be lighter and shorter and much more enjoyable to lug around on my 3 day forrays into the wilderness, not to mention cheaper to purchase and shoot. But it won't be worth it if it won't stop a grizz.

Thoughts?

[James B]

Almost any large caliber handgun MIGHT stop a bear. That all depends on the bullet and it's placement. You put and bullet in a bears brain and he's dead but not every caliber will put it there. My Minimum would be the 41 Magnum with the 44 being my top choice. With 300 Grain or heavier hard cast bullet you at least have a chance. However you have to hit a target, probably moving, thats about the size of a grapefruit. Thats about the size of the vital brain area. Can you do that while seating blood?

I wouldn't even bother to carry a 50-75 oz handgun as a backup, you may as well carry a carbine or sklug gun as a backup weight wise. I have the Taurus Ultralite 44 Mag which has a 4 inch barrel and weighs 28 OZ. Thas worth the weight for me. I carry 300 grain LBT hard cast bullet in it. Hope I never have to use it for that purpose.

[salukipv1]

for griz backup/sidearm? .44 mag or .480 ruger would be my first looks, I think CZ makes an alaskan model chambered in like 444 supermag? will shoot .44 mags as well? all black, looks pretty nice.

[oldelkhunter]

Also, as someone mentioned before, experienced Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker recommends the .357 Magnum loaded with 180 grain hard casts for grizzlies.

Read one of his articles last night in Handloader seems like he totes a pump action shotgun full of Brenneke slugs for said purpose. I know a guy that carries a 357 when he bowhunts Wyoming grizzly country and has had one bear problem and he really hoped he didn't have to use it. Proper shot placement on an animal that is pumped full of adrenaline and hell bent on your destruction that incidentally runs 35 miles an hour good luck and all with proper shot placement.

[Pavomesa]

You mean the bear won't stand still and let us carefully place our shots!!!![][]

[Paul L Mohr]

I don't know that I would suggest a weapon for bear that most consider barely usable for deer at close ranges.

I honestly can't think of a caliber that would be safe when used against an angry bear at normal pistol distances. I mean you might kill the bear, but the important question is will you be alive to see it die.

Paul

[Destructo]

A 6" barrel is better supposedly because it allows a full powder burn with a .357 getting you the most power from the cartridge.

There was an article on field and streams website where a guy got attacked by a grizzley they were releasing, bear got on top of him and tore him up some but the guy was able to pull his 357 out of his holster and dispatch the bear, he had to be airlifted out but did not suffer in immediately life threatening injuries because he was able to kill the grizzley with the 357, I suspect it was shot in the head.

I'm going to be getting a 357 as a side arm when I go hunting this fall, but we just have black bears here and i'm sure a 357 will take down a black bear.

[IndyHunter83]

I would go as large as possible. I the 500SW is a good bet. As far as the 357 mag. goes. I would say that it at best might kill a grizzly. But I don't think it will drop one by any means. Go for a larger caliber if your seriously scared about this. Remember that in this type of situation your might not be calm enough to think about bullet placement. With a larger caliber and larger grain bullets you would more likely to kill the bear than with smaller bullets.

[Paul L Mohr]

Something you need to keep in mind is there is a big difference between hunting an animal and killing one in self defense. You can hunt a bear with a bow, but I would not try to defend myself with one. When hunting the goal is that the animal doesn't know you are there and is not alerted. He is going about his/her business and suddenly gets shot. Normally running away and expiring.

That is a HUGE difference between a large dangerous animal that knows you are there and considers you a threat to itself or offspring. Especially an animal that is as fast, strong and smart as a bear. These are one of the few animals that can hunt you back.

Like I have said in other posts, sure a .357 or other pistol will kill a bear, but if you think it will reliably stop a charging bear in it's tracks or drop it in a few yards you will probably lose that bet. I still say save at least one shot so you don't have to die while the bear is eating you alive (which they do).

The simple thing to do is if you are this worried about being attacked by a bear, just don't put yourself in that situation. I have this phobia about sharks. They fascinate me, but scare the crap out of me at the same time. I have this deal with them, I will stay out of their back yard if they stay out of mine. It is pretty simple really, I don't want to be eaten by a shark, so I don't go swimming where sharks are. Not go swimming where sharks are but take a poison tipped spear gun with me hoping it will save my life.

That last paragraph was a joke, but it does make a good point.

Paul

[Paul L Mohr]

Here ya go

Bear tasered

According to this you don't need a gun, just get a taser and you are good to go.

Paul