How close can a Marlin 1895 be loaded compared to a Ruger #1?

[tykempster]

Some sites say some ammunition is high pressure, for Ruger and Marlins only, while others put the 1895 and the #1 at a different level. How close can a lever action be loaded to the single shot safely?

[tykempster]

Also, I've been thinking about getting a Marlin 45-70 as a woods rifle for all species, deer, and everything else I ever get to hunt. This would be a mostly close range gun but some shots may reach a little bit past 100 yards. Is there any reason to get the longer barrel version instead of the guide gun with the short barrel? I really like the compactness and light weight but how much trajectory and velocity will I lose and how much recoil and muzzle blast would I gain? Everyone I know thinks a 45-70 is WAY too much for a 14 year old, but for my 15th burthday my dad said we could split the cost 50-50 if I really want it. Thanks for any replies and help!

[James B]

That is an often asked question and the answer is probably not to be found in certain terms. The Lyman Manual lists the Max loads for the Ruger at 40,000 psi. They list the loads for the 450 Marlin at up to 41000 Psi. The 1895 Marlin action is the same for the 444, 45-70 and 450 Marlin. Therefore one would suspect that the 1895 45-70 would stand up to at least Lymans Ruger loads. I have read that Hornady loads approach 50000 for the Ruger. Hornadays Marlin loads are listed at 40000 max.

To me the Lyman manual is the bible for rifles that commonly shoot cast bullets and most of the old firearms. I can say for sure that if you let your shoulder be your guide, you probably won't want to go much past the 40000 psi loads.

After all, the american buffalo was nearly wiped off the planet with black powder loads in the Springfield Trapdoors and other rifles in their stregth class. A 500 grain bullet even at 1200-1300 fps is pretty hard to stop.

The Marlin will handle the hot Garret loads and there is nothing on this planet that can stand up to those. Go to the Garret cartridge site and find some very interesting info on the 45-70. Still going strong after 120 years or so. I should be so lucky

It can be loaded close but not all the way. From my loads, I was not able to reach max loads. Accuracy fell apart well before. I assume due to the lockup and several other factors.

I went all the way up to 51gr of IMR4198 with 300gr nosler partition, but got bad vertical stringing after 47gr. I still was kicking 2050fps with 300gr bullet at 46gr. Thats not bad. Other loads showed simular results. I would get 1.5MOA accuracy consistently then as I approached the ruger loads within 3-4 gr, bad vertical stringing. Maybe its just my gun.

Brian Peirce from Rifle mag, who seems to be a lever expert, says as long as the 1895 was manufactured after 1972, you can reach 44KPSI with good safe margin.

[tykempster]

If I started handloading it would probably be for deer in the woods, I wouldn't need super high pressures. This is assuming I have money to buy handloader by deer season.

Try that 4198 load. Not bad. Excellent for deer. I shot one last year and it was pretty devistating.

[AmericanPioneer]

Well if you look at the Garrett and Buffalo Bore loads they are very stout and they are recommended for the Marlin 1895, but only theones made after a certain year.
Garrett's link http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

Link for reviews on Garretts loads. You got to read some of these stories. They are amazing.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/reviews2.asp

Buffalo Bore's link http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570scroll down on this page to find the 45-70 loads.

[VT_Hunter1980]

I'm of the opinion that you really don't need to hotrod the 45/70 if all you're going after is deer. A .45 cal, 300 to 405 grainslug travelling at 1300 to 1700 fps is going to leave a big hole and isn't going to stop for much. This is, of course assuming that you're using the proper bullet construction and are within the rifle's range limits. If you think you're going to be shooting past 100 yards a lot, the .45/70 might not be the best choice. However, if you're willing to get close, there isn't much it won't kill, even with factory ammo.

I have an 1895 with a 22" inch barrel. I prefer that length because my eyes happen to line up a peep sight better when I have a longer sight plane. That's just me and there are plenty of people who love their guide guns.

[tykempster]

I don't think there would be many shots past 100 around where I hunt. I hunt in southern MIssouri and I could just stay near the woods, and save my 7mm for the fields and stuff. Everyone around here has a 30-30, which yes, is because it works, but I want something a little bit different and with more versatility. My grandpa thinks I'm crazy for wanting such a "huge elephant gun", what do you guys think?

[JeffS]

I have a 30-30, .35, and .450 Marlin. You don't need a 45-70 for deer like you said but there is nothing wrong with it. Though you should know if you are going to be shooting hot loads in it the recoil is pretty hard. My .450 kicks harder than my buddies .375 H&H Magnum. So if you have problems with recoil I would stick to the factory 45-70 loads which are more than enough for almost anything that walks, and have a lighter recoil. Right now my buddy has a cut above his eye from shooting my .450. He shot it once and refuses to shoot it again.