Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird

[bramravik]

if you now about this round . pat yourself on the back. you are now smarter than 90 percent of people. the ballistics on this round are the awesome. the new shock and awe. i m thinking of buying one and need to know if any1 got some info on it. like other than lazzerni with cabers this round?

thank you brad

[Roskoe]

I had the same glowing first impression with the first .30-378 Weatherby I built. Had to have one for myself. Bought an action just for that purpose. After a year or so of shooting other people's rifles in this caliber, however, I decided it was too much of a good thing. An extremely unpleasant firearm to discharge - loud, harsh, lots of muzzle blast. Short barrel life. I finally decided that if it was too far away to kill with a .300 Winchester, I was going to try to sneak closer or pass the shot.

[doubleA]

if you now about this round . pat yourself on the back. you are now smarter than 90 percent of people. the ballistics on this round are the awesome. the new shock and awe

I dont consider myself as being smart but do know as impressive as the ballisticswarbird are, the 30-378 wby, which by the way has been with us since the 1950's has the same ballistics. Lazzeroni uses moly coated bullets and what reloading data I have seen the loads are over 65,000 psi . Some might disagree but that's my take.

No doubt, the Warbird is one heck of a cartridge, the Lazzeroni rifles are more expensive but are well made. I might have to look into getting one someday.

[cherokee_outfitters]

Not trying to degrade the cartridge, but I often wonder why someone would want to shoot the beast unless you shooting at elk, moose or grizzly beyond 500yds. There is a such thing as overkill for shooting closer ranges. I believe I'll stick with my 300 win mag its alot more pleasant to shoot and 500yds and under with a decent rest it's always brought the meat home.

I bought a 378weatherby once and it didn't take long to dismiss all those impressive ballistics. At $4 a round it was lets say costing a arm and a leg to shoot. But if you like those big guns and can shoot them with precision then by all means have a blast shooting one.

[mossy33oak]

I was very impressed with the rifle, until I saw how much they cost. I just cant afford to drop $2000 on a rifle/scope.

[bigbulls]

I had read a while back that Lazzeroni is getting these velocities with upwards of 75,000 psi. I can't remember the source thought I wish I could. He is really pushing the envelope IMHO.

He is also getting the published velocities with 27 inch barrels which he offers on only one rifle, the L2005LLR special long range. The rest come with 24, 25, and 26 inch barrels for the long magnums. So there goes 50 - 200 fps right there.

He also gets his published data for the short magnums with a 24 inch barrel but only offers 22 inch barrels on his rifles. So there goes about 125 fps right there.

Another little trick that he does is rather than the standard 1.5 inch line of sight above the bore he computes using a 2 inch line of sight above the bore. this gives him a better edge on paper when comparing his cartridges to everyone elses.

He also computes trajectories at 3000 feet above sea level instead of correcting for sea level like the rest fo the manufacturers. This alone will give him a trajectory advantage over everyone else of 2 - 4 inches when you get out to 500 and 600 yards.

$2000 for a rifle and scope???????????? His rifles with out a scope start at $5900.00 and go up.


So when you really look at the fine print they really aren't as impressive as they would seem.

[Ridge Runner]

Thats what I've always said, the only way to match his numbers is in his rifle shooting his bullets( which are 1/1000th undersized and nickel electro-plated. His warbird matches what the 300 Kong did 15-20 years ago.
I think you could get the same performance in another rifle much cheaper.
RR

[RedAllison]

Blah blah blah, it's quite plain and simple guys. The round is THE king of 30cals and is simply awesome! What was true 20-30 years ago is as much applicable too what is true 20-30 years from today, who cares we are only concerned with today! The 30-378 is 95% what the Warbird is and all those "technicalities" that were espoused about John Lazzeroni and his methods are pure bunk. They are much more reasonable too the average hunter, if his charts are in deed displayed with 2" above line of bore correlations it is because most of his customers are using larger 30mm tubed, 50+mm bell scopes which obviously are taller than the industry standard 1.5". The temps for velocity given is an even 70 degrees! That doesn't sound like much "hiding" too me. The NP3 plating is quite useful and actually preferred too cut down not only on pressures (75K? come on, few of the loads rarely exceed 64K with 62K being the norm) but also to decrease copper fouling.

Now on with the mans question... is it a great round? Well first I ask, "How many of the above responders actually have a Lazzeroni to begin with?" If you don't then you simply can NOT make any recommendations or comments now can you? Mathematical "assumptions" and the best armchair ballistic "experts" are still not concrete or factual evidence are they? I mean I think I could fly the space shuttle, but I doubt NASA is going to let me just because I slept in a Holiday Inn Express lastnight!!!

This fall will be my 6th season with my Sako TRGS/Lazzeroni Warbird and my best huntin bud is on his5th season with a Savage/Patriot and two other members in our clubs haveaWarbird and a Firebird respectively.I have taken well over 50 animals with it (all but two where whitetails, those other two were a mulie and antelope taken in WY lastyear). The gun is simply AWESOME for "point and click" long range deer hunting and it is like anyother high performance, top performing "toy". As do Ferrari's, Gulfstream jets and unbelievably beautiful women, "SUPERmags" cost more to operate, make alot of noise and aren't applicable too all situations. But I seriously doubt that anyone who is really looking at a Lazz is in the situation where it is/will be his only firearm. When I hunt my long range stands I take the Sako (though I have killed deer as close as 45 yds with and they were just as dead as the ones I've killed over 400yds and neither where blown too bits or even suffered any bruised or damaged meat!) when I am going deep back in the boonies I will dig into the inner-depths of my gunsafe and come out with something a lil more "practical".

Sure it costs $5 to pull the trigger, but I don't care WHAT kind of hunting you are doing, when you consider all the other expenses of the typical hunt even emptying the gun ($20, and yes it's happened when I "herdshoot" several does here in west TN!) is the smallest fraction of the cost of hunting!Filling up your race car with bluefuel seems expensive likewise, but for what it costs to buy, maintain and race that car... filling up the fuel tank/magazine is but a small pittance by comparison. Besides, my philosophy is simply this, "If I don't spend it my wife and kids will"!!!

IMHO all you need is either a 6x24x50PVS Swarovski (which is what I have) or the 6x24x56 Zeiss (which is what I would've gotten had they been out when I got my rifle in 99), a couple boxes of 150 Lazerheads and a quality rangefinder and you my friend are set for ANY long range big game scenario you can come up with! I simply can't wait to take this thing to NM or AZ for elk. I just DARE em to show themselves!!!

Good luck and enjoy the thunderstick if you get one,
RA

ps
Now as for the other calibers, like I said I have a good friend with the Patriot and I love that lil gun as much as he does. I have been around 2 Firebirds in our camp for several years as well and they are no different than arguing the 7mag vs 300mag, they both kill like lightning. The only other one I have been around is a friend of mine who has a large lease in NE Kansas. After taking me on his place in 01 he simply had to have a Lazzeroni for those MONSTER bodied deer as he was used to having had a lease in Carrizo Springs, TX for many years and those deer were noticably smaller than the Kansas brutes he now chases. But he is an older fellow who had a large cancerous tumor removed from under his right shoulder a few years ago and he just can't take recoil like he used to. So he "settled" on the Scramjet. His L2000 is AWESOME and that cartridge dumps those huge Kansas brutes at long range much faster than his trusty ol 7mag Abolt of old.

Recoil wise, it's not as bad as most would have you believe (like I said, how many on here have one?). I have a KDF brake on mine and use hearing protection. I wish I woulda used the protection 20 years ago when I began hunting and the brake allows me to watch the shot and also I don't have to worry about clanging my Swarovski on window sills in my shooting houses when I "torch that mother off" as my guide in WY lovingly referred too it lastyear!

[Kraton]

Can u still get the Sako and Savage models?

[RedAllison]

No Krat you can't, they can be found from time too time on Gunbroker.com and other such auction sites. Most any custom maker can likewise cut you a Lazz if you want one. The lil Savage is an AWESOME gun now I tell ya. Had I handled one before I got my Sako (they didn't release the Savage until after mine was around) I probably woulda gotten one of them. They are ballistically a 300Wby Mag in a short mag, lightweight, easy handling package. If only they woulda had the Accutrigger...


RA

ps
Oh yeah, Bram you asked about the ballistics. This what I get with my rifle in 50 degree temps at roughly 300ft elevation here in west TN.

150 Lazerhead.
+2.5" @ 100yds with a .5" group.
-3.5" @ 400yds with a 3.5" group.

I don't know how to make it any easier than that!!!