Most accurate rifle
03-06-2014, 05:11 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
Most accurate rifle
Hi every one, I have a question, what is the most accurate hunting rifle? I have had good luck with Browning, Sauer, tikka, I presently have a Weatherby Vanguard and a Ruger American and nether one shoots worth a sh*t with factory or reloads. I have no experience with Savage or Winchester or Remington.
I realize that this is a very subjective question but I have no experience with the above 3 brands and I need some advice. Thx for all your help.
I realize that this is a very subjective question but I have no experience with the above 3 brands and I need some advice. Thx for all your help.
03-06-2014, 06:35 PM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Garrett County, MD
Posts: 251
I used to work for a guy, an old sage kinda guy.
always told me not to blame the tool.
i can take any rifle and hit a pie plate at a hundred yards.
which is accurate to my standards.
i shoot about ten various rifles single shots, levers, bolts.
theyre all winchester or remington, and all i ever shoot is remington factory loads.
im honestly having a hard time understanding how a rifle could "shoot like #&*@"
none of the rifles i shoot can be worth more than 300, and the ones youre talking about are like thousand dollar rifles.
i think it's you but that's just me.
always told me not to blame the tool.
i can take any rifle and hit a pie plate at a hundred yards.
which is accurate to my standards.
i shoot about ten various rifles single shots, levers, bolts.
theyre all winchester or remington, and all i ever shoot is remington factory loads.
im honestly having a hard time understanding how a rifle could "shoot like #&*@"
none of the rifles i shoot can be worth more than 300, and the ones youre talking about are like thousand dollar rifles.
i think it's you but that's just me.
03-07-2014, 03:51 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
What standard of accuracy are you looking for? It makes a difference. If you're shooting bugholes with the first three and cloverleafs with the last two at 100 yards, you may not have the problem you think you do. If you're shooting 1.5" with the first three and 3" with the last two, your problem may not be your rifles.
I'll try to word this as gently as I can. Many of us grew up with a parent who was drilled in the "8 steady hold factors" - and who in turn drilled them into us. Some of us had further encouragement from loud people wearing Smokey Bear hats who further seared those factors into our brains.
As I drift around the gun counters and at the range lately, I'm concerned that I run into too many shooters who seem to be well-read, but poorly-practiced. They can tell you all the virtues of the latest cartridge or reticle, but can't hit the broad side of a barn. Some of the guys behind the gun counter are the worst offenders. Too much media and marketing exposure, too little marksmanship training.
You may or may not fall into the above. What's working with the first three rifles that isn't working with the last two? Specifically? What tells you that the last two aren't working? Is the quality of the optics and mounts similar? Were they correctly installed? The only one of the rifles you mention that I own is the Vanguard. It won't win any prize past 600 yards, but it does reliably kill elk in the field at ranges less than that.
I'll try to word this as gently as I can. Many of us grew up with a parent who was drilled in the "8 steady hold factors" - and who in turn drilled them into us. Some of us had further encouragement from loud people wearing Smokey Bear hats who further seared those factors into our brains.
As I drift around the gun counters and at the range lately, I'm concerned that I run into too many shooters who seem to be well-read, but poorly-practiced. They can tell you all the virtues of the latest cartridge or reticle, but can't hit the broad side of a barn. Some of the guys behind the gun counter are the worst offenders. Too much media and marketing exposure, too little marksmanship training.
You may or may not fall into the above. What's working with the first three rifles that isn't working with the last two? Specifically? What tells you that the last two aren't working? Is the quality of the optics and mounts similar? Were they correctly installed? The only one of the rifles you mention that I own is the Vanguard. It won't win any prize past 600 yards, but it does reliably kill elk in the field at ranges less than that.
03-07-2014, 04:34 AM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 797
I just went through the biggest mind screw of all when it comes to accuracy in a rifle. To make a long story short. My favorite hunting rifle in a standard contour barrel seemed to have lost it's edge and started stringing shots like crazy. After a few hundred rounds and a lot of tinkering it's back to shooting solid groups again. But here's the key I'm back to the original accurate load it liked to begin with. It was a stock issue and how in the world it had changed or moved is beyond me. So the end result is I got my confidence back in it and it's shooting just like it was brand new.
The thing is most of us are buying factory hunting style guns $1000.00 or less. I'm sorry to say but unless you get a really really good one off the shelf your going to spend a lot of time on the reloading bench tuning a load to the rifle to even remotely compare to a rebuilt rifle or custom gun that someone has chunked a ton of money into.
I know everyone says my gun puts holes in holes at 100yards. I consider myself a pretty decent shot and it takes a really well put together rifle to be able to do that consistently. I'm not happy until mine are at least clover leaf'in at that range. Human error is a common factor in all this. Among playing with rifle mentioned above I tweaked my shooting form that had been slacking. There are so many variables to making a rifle shoot in that sweet spot. Best thing is to start reading column after column of articles and try them all sooner or later you'll find your issue and possibly an easy fix without dumping a ton of money in a $500.00 gun that's tolerances are made to accommodate every round on the shelf at the gun shop.
100yards is not the best place to test accuracy of loads in a rifle. Spread that range out to 200, 300 and 400 yards and start testing loads and shooting groups. You'll find what your rifle likes. It may not be all that spectacular on paper but remember if your staying under 1" at 100 yards then you should be able to stay under 3" at 300 yards and so on. So you shoot 500 yards and got a 4 1/2" group your right where your standard factory rifle's tolerances are probably made for. But running MOA or better at the appropriate range is no room for complaint for a standard factory rifle. That's all they are made to do.
But every once in awhile you'll get a really nice shooting factory rifle. And when it seems to go out of whack go back to the basic's before going to the gunsmith. I think your rifles will find what they want to shoot and if they don't go see the smithy but your going to start to spend some cash.
For example my 300 win mag has .313 of jump before the bullet touches the lands it shoots this way the best always has. That's the amount of tolerance that a factory rifle will have. Most really accurate rifle like to be right at the cut of the nut into the lands for the best groups. I have a ton to learn and chasing bullets around in the chamber is a lot of time at the range. But that's it the more time at the range the better you get and that in itself takes out another variable in the equation.
So maybe your just like me and can shoot have confidence in your shooting but we have a lifetime of knowledge to learn on exactly how to make just more than one rifle shoot and shoot well 100% of the time. Even the best benchrest shooters will laugh at the 100% of the time comment. They know better. I'll settle for a good day and a good group or two at the range at distance to know I can count on one particular rifle.
The thing is most of us are buying factory hunting style guns $1000.00 or less. I'm sorry to say but unless you get a really really good one off the shelf your going to spend a lot of time on the reloading bench tuning a load to the rifle to even remotely compare to a rebuilt rifle or custom gun that someone has chunked a ton of money into.
I know everyone says my gun puts holes in holes at 100yards. I consider myself a pretty decent shot and it takes a really well put together rifle to be able to do that consistently. I'm not happy until mine are at least clover leaf'in at that range. Human error is a common factor in all this. Among playing with rifle mentioned above I tweaked my shooting form that had been slacking. There are so many variables to making a rifle shoot in that sweet spot. Best thing is to start reading column after column of articles and try them all sooner or later you'll find your issue and possibly an easy fix without dumping a ton of money in a $500.00 gun that's tolerances are made to accommodate every round on the shelf at the gun shop.
100yards is not the best place to test accuracy of loads in a rifle. Spread that range out to 200, 300 and 400 yards and start testing loads and shooting groups. You'll find what your rifle likes. It may not be all that spectacular on paper but remember if your staying under 1" at 100 yards then you should be able to stay under 3" at 300 yards and so on. So you shoot 500 yards and got a 4 1/2" group your right where your standard factory rifle's tolerances are probably made for. But running MOA or better at the appropriate range is no room for complaint for a standard factory rifle. That's all they are made to do.
But every once in awhile you'll get a really nice shooting factory rifle. And when it seems to go out of whack go back to the basic's before going to the gunsmith. I think your rifles will find what they want to shoot and if they don't go see the smithy but your going to start to spend some cash.
For example my 300 win mag has .313 of jump before the bullet touches the lands it shoots this way the best always has. That's the amount of tolerance that a factory rifle will have. Most really accurate rifle like to be right at the cut of the nut into the lands for the best groups. I have a ton to learn and chasing bullets around in the chamber is a lot of time at the range. But that's it the more time at the range the better you get and that in itself takes out another variable in the equation.
So maybe your just like me and can shoot have confidence in your shooting but we have a lifetime of knowledge to learn on exactly how to make just more than one rifle shoot and shoot well 100% of the time. Even the best benchrest shooters will laugh at the 100% of the time comment. They know better. I'll settle for a good day and a good group or two at the range at distance to know I can count on one particular rifle.
03-07-2014, 05:06 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
Sadly I do believe that there are a fair number of guys who can not keep them on a pie plate at 100 yards from any shooting position other than from the bench. I almost never see people target shooting (not the tactical crowd just blasting away) from the standing position, and it is extremely doubtful if most guys can use a sling for anything other than a carry strap.
I'd bet that half of the new "snipers" cold not keep 100 shots on a trash can lid at 100 from standing, unless they are using a keyboard.
I'd bet that half of the new "snipers" cold not keep 100 shots on a trash can lid at 100 from standing, unless they are using a keyboard.
03-07-2014, 05:37 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: northeast
Posts: 115
Big uncle good post...I just posted to someone asking about shooting sticks and bi-pods and the use of them...told them that using their sling will give them a good steady "rest" out in the field when game is coming in hot and fiddling with a stick or pod isn't an option...to make their using the sling second nature at the range.Then if they want too try a pod or stick do so. I sight in with a bench but practice off hand(may not be correct term..but one I use)...not always are we hunting with a shooting rail...
03-07-2014, 11:45 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,081
Good post Big Uncle. Sadly, I see people at the range that are happy if they are on paper at 100 yards. I also see others that are shooting handloads and want maximum velocity from them, not accuracy loads. Listened to the 3 of them, and one fellow that had a 2900 fps load that shot well wasn't happy. He wanted his son to load all of them to 3100 fps. For me the 3100 load sucked, but he needed it. I love shooting off hand standing at 300 yards at the reactive targets, and a lot of them can't hit them at 100 yards. Minute of garbage can don't cut it. I don't feel like chasing something into the next county because of a bad hit. The game that you are chasing deserves better than that. I have also seen some wound an animal and "oh well, we'll find another one". They are slobs and I have no use for people like that at all.
03-07-2014, 12:18 PM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Garrett County, MD
Posts: 251
Sadly I do believe that there are a fair number of guys who can not keep them on a pie plate at 100 yards from any shooting position other than from the bench. I almost never see people target shooting (not the tactical crowd just blasting away) from the standing position, and it is extremely doubtful if most guys can use a sling for anything other than a carry strap.
not bashing anything about tactical, but i dont shoot them.
I shoot my 45 in a standing position using the sling.
but it was my impression that most of those guys at the range just got done watching the discovery channel right before they came. half of them can't even fix a jam.