Anyone believe in high-velocity killing power?

[salukipv1]

Does anyone out there believe there's some truth to the idea that a high velocity round will make an animal drop dead on the spot more likely than a slower / avg round? Many standard rounds shoot around 3000fps or slower....nowadays and weatherby years ago love high velocity rounds, some now are 3200, or 3400+ fps ? Do you think for an animal that there's a velocity threshold that once passed will cause death immediatly? I think some call this hydrostatic shock? Do you think a 180gr going 3400fps will drop a deer/elk better than a 180gr going 2900fps?

[devil dog]

Higher velocity = killing power, no!, flatter trajectory and farther down range accuracy, YES!!. No matter what the velocity is" within range", shot placement will determine a quick kill, all bullits create hydrostatic shock, all that is, is the term used for the bullit impacting a water formed barrier " animals, people, ballistic gellitan", the amount of hydrostatic shock is baced by bullit shape " hollow point, soft point, full metal jacket".

[stubblejumper]

I have found that my quickest kills were with high velocity cartridges,however,I believe that the fact that the wound channel was larger was far more of a factor than hydrostatic shock.

[Folically Challenged]

ORIGINAL: salukipv1

Does anyone out there believe there's some truth to the idea that a high velocity round will make an animal drop dead on the spot more likely than a slower / avg round? Many standard rounds shoot around 3000fps or slower....nowadays and weatherby years ago love high velocity rounds, some now are 3200, or 3400+ fps ? Do you think for an animal that there's a velocity threshold that once passed will cause death immediatly? I think some call this hydrostatic shock? Do you think a 180gr going 3400fps will drop a deer/elk better than a 180gr going 2900fps?

This one can be argued ad nauseum, and it will always come down to what you're comfortable with.

For the tinkerers out there, there's always the newest case, that will hold ever the smallest bit more powder, & get the chronograph to measure those precious extra few fps that will make their heart dance with joy. For me, it usually comes back to a decently constructed bullet, not too light for caliber, at 2,400 to 2,900 fps. I can get factory loads in this range for little $$$ (in the calibers I shoot), that group wonderfully, and that seem to get the critters as dead as I need 'em.

To (mis)quote a poster from another site, "It aint energy kills animals, it's holes!".

Then there's the one about, "the squashed bugs on my truck's windshield proves the 'heavy projectile at a low velocity' theory."

In the words o' Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

FC

[bigbulls]

There is only one thing that will cause instant death and that is a shot to the brain. Period end of story. Regardless of how fast or slow a bullet is traveling at impact.

No a spine shot does not cause instant death. It causes instant paralysis until the brain is depleated of oxygen and dies.

A faster bullet with adequate construction can cause the animal to drop right then but it still isn't dead. The theory is that the faster bullet causes more shock to the body and with perfect timing can cause instant ruptures of blood vessels in the brain basically causing a massive stroke and causing the animal to collapse.

[Pavomesa]

If velocity has no effect, I guess then we should expect the same results from a 40 gr bullet out of 22 LR as a 40 gr bullet from a 22/250? Anyone who has ever dressed out their own deer has likely seen the effects of hydrostatic shock. And it's silly to deny it can increase the lethality of a bullet.

But just how all this affects killing power is something we can argue until we are pea green in the face. As we increase velocity, a lot of other variable increase as well. For instance ENERGY[&:] The faster any projectile is going, the more energy it has. I would argue that SOMETIMEShigher velocity can certainly = increased killing power. But let's not get lost in the issue of just how quick an animal is medically "dead."

Again, if we consider a deer properly shot through the boiler room, i.e. heart/lung area, when we dress out this animal we find that most of the hydrostatic shock was actually delivered to the muscle tissue...especially on the exit side. A bullet hardly knows it has touched a heart or lung. Assuming text book bullet performance, I suspect what the higher velocity round does is accellerate just how fast an animal will go DOWN simply because more of him is damaged.

But text book bullet performance doesn't always happen for sure. Sometimes higher velocity can cause bullets to explode on impact...sometimes causing crazy wounds that may or may not kill quickly. In such cases the higher velocity was likely more of a handicap.

And just how much hydrostatic shock can any given projectile create...regardless of velocity??? In other words, it we shoot a deer with an 87 gr bullet going 2,300 fps...........how much greater would be the "HS" and its effect if we shot the same deer with the same bullet going 3.300 fps? What about 4,300 fps??? My point is we've only got the same very small projectile. At what point in velocity has it imparted all the damage it can do?

I don't have a clue to the answer to this. All I can do is affirm that velocity most assuredly has an effect........up to a point. It's defining exactly WHERE that point ends that I can't answer.

[Ridge Runner]

hydrostatic shock does kill, the best way to achieve this is by using a light for caliber bullet at high velocity, and hit in the point of most resistance, the scapula (shoulder blade) on impact fluid displacement causes the blood to be pushed backwards through the major blood vessels, and a massive shock wave travels up the spine to the brainstem all of which overwhelms the central nervous system causing all systems to shut down immediately.
The calibers most known for this on average sized deer are the 243,25/06, 6.5's, and 270's, with lighter bullets. as the size of deer goes up, the bullet weight does also.
just my experience in 40 years of deer hunting.
RR

[trailer]

Do you think for an animal that there's a velocity threshold that once passed will cause death immediatly?

Yes I do.Shooting a 22 caliber Super Explosive bullet at high speeds will do this on small game. Heck, they could even disappear...

[RugerM77.270]

ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner

hydrostatic shock does kill, the best way to achieve this is by using a light for caliber bullet at high velocity, and hit in the point of most resistance, the scapula (shoulder blade) on impact fluid displacement causes the blood to be pushed backwards through the major blood vessels, and a massive shock wave travels up the spine to the brainstem all of which overwhelms the central nervous system causing all systems to shut down immediately.
The calibers most known for this on average sized deer are the 243,25/06, 6.5's, and 270's, with lighter bullets. as the size of deer goes up, the bullet weight does also.
just my experience in 40 years of deer hunting.
RR

To go along with RR. I read an article about why game is sometimes DRT and sometimes not with the same shot. It took the research of two vets in Africa that were culling the population of a buffalo herd with a .338 (most would say small for a buff). They would shoot all in the same Heart lung area and some would collapse on the spot some would run. They would then examine the carcass and proform and autopse. What they found was when the bullet impacted at the moment of a heart beat a sudden spike in blood pressure was cause resulting in all the blood vessels in the brain expolding and a DRT buffalo.

[cjwink]

I think there are two effective methods of killing.. One from a high velocity round (say upwards of 3400 FPS) and the other from sheer energy (Slower larger grain bullets say 250 grains or more traveling below 2400 FPS) The faster bullet cause extreme shock to the animal and the other is just plain brute force.. That being said I think that there is gap where many of today's rifles fall intowhere the speed and bullet weight combination are not enough for shock and are to much for brute force.Yes they will kill animals by taking out the vitals.. But a 150 Grain bullet traveling 2900 FPS is not fast enough to cause extreme shock and not heavy/slow enough to transfer the full energy into the animal.. It simply slices thru taking out the lungs.. Much like a arrow would do..