DIY_guy

Cool story bro.

super_hunt54

DIY, I like your work on some of your stuff and you seem like a nice enough guy, but you were coming off a good bit arrogant. I've seen your argument time and time again about crossbows. Even saw it with another argument. COMPOUNDS. All kinds of traditionalists trying to call me a traitor for going over to the "dark side" and using compounds. "Too easy to hold back". "Too fast". "May as well use a rifle since that arrow is moving so quick".

As into archery as you are I am sure you have at least shot a crossbow, but have you ever hunted with one? They can be as big, if not a bigger, pain in the rear than any compound. Bulky and hard to get through heavy cover (remind you of anything?) You ever heard a quiet crossbow? I've heard many of them and have yet to hear a quiet one. Ever try to reload one in a tree stand? That's a disaster waiting to happen there! Your draw and let down argument is valid as there is little to no movement other than bringing the crossbow to bear. But the rest of the stuff more than evens that crap out. Your range on a crossbow is pretty much the same as your faster compounds. There are scopes and magnified lenses for compounds nowadays, I know because I use one. Have to since my eyes just aint that grand anymore.

In ending of this long drawn out post from me, how's about us archers welcome the crossbow community as we all SHOULD have welcomed the compound shooters back in the past.

DIY_guy

Many many of them. Ive even owned 3 of them since 1982.

yes. But I would rather be a bowhunter so I dont hunt with a crossbow. My 80 year old father does as does my 12 year old niece since they can bowhunt with a real bow.

Crossbows are certainly welcome in the archery community. But I am talking about bowhunting. I know lots of archers that are not bowhunters. They shoot leagues with recurves and compounds but dont bowhunt. They just enjoy archery. The Op was asking about a tool for hunting. I suggested that he would much more enjoy bowhunting rather than crossbowing for a lot of the negatives you describe about crossbows. Hard to believe anybody would want to hunt with a crossbow considering all the negatives about them you listed.

super_hunt54

I know I won't use one till I can't pull at least 45 pounds. But that's a personal choice since I have been a bow hunter for a God Awful number of years. Playing slap and tickle with 70 but I've been told I don't look a day over 100 (dang mean wife) But I still wouldn't denigrate the use of them by younger folks. I just don't like the things for the reasons I stated. If someone can get them into the woods, up into a stand, and use one successfully they should be commended. All tools in hunting have their +'s and -'s And there will always be those traditionalists that think technology has ruined the sport. But since crossbows are FAR from new technology I can't see the reasons behind their complaints. As far as using a crossbow for deer hunting, you still have to get close, still need to do your homework to get within 40 or so yards, still need to be silent, still need to play the wind, still need to be as still as possible. The only difference is the draw. And if by some chance you miss, it's a LOT harder to get a followup shot with a crossbow than ANY other tool for hunting. Even a muzzleloader is easier to get a followup shot with!

DIY_guy

The same can be said about a photographer. you still have to get close, still need to do your homework to get within 40 or so yards, still need to be silent, still need to play the wind, still need to be as still as possible. The only difference is the click of the shutter. That guy is not a bowhunter either. Nor is a guy that uses a 30-06 or a ML or a handgun. As I stated to the Op, I think he would rather enjoy bowhunting and he would regret quitting and stopping bowhunting to become a crossbower.

bronko22000

Sorry DIY but I have to call BS on those using crossbow as not being bow hunters. So can you please tell me where you draw the line. The compound bows today are launching arrows at close to the 350 fps range with PSE advertising one at 370 fps. There are not many crossbows today that can exceed those speeds.
But just to look at some ballistics using moderate (average speeds) with average weight arrows, forgetting the IBO ratings this is what I found using an archery ballistic program. A crossbow launching a 350 gr arrow at 305 fps (this is the supposed speed of my Excalibur Ibex) at 20 yards the vertical drop is -8", velocity is 292 fps and KE is 66 ftlb and at 50 yards VD =-55, V= 274 and KE=58. Now using my new Mathews shooting a 415 gr arrow at 285 fps the same program shows at 20 yards a vertical drop of -9", velocity at 274 and KE of 67. At 50 yards the same values ar -62, 259 and 59.
So a reality check is yes the crossbow does have and advantage. At 50 yards the advantage is 7" less vertical drop, and 15 more fps. But the compound has the one ftlb KE edge because of the slightly heavier arrow. So IMO these figures are insignificant.
I didn't go beyond 50 yards because with the noise generated by a crossbow vs the reaction time of a deer would negate any advantage the crossbow would have.
So we all have our opinions and I say that hunters who use crossbows are bow hunters. And you are right that there is less movement involved with using one. But if you know what you're doing you are likely not to get caught drawing your bow. It's only happened to me a couple of times in my, well this will be my 50th year hunting with the bow. And that was with a compound. When I used my recurve long before compounds came out if the deer saw me drawing back it was too late because the arrow was already on the way before he figured out what I was.

DIY_guy

Sure. I'd be glad to. Its really very simple. Bowhunters hold the bow in one hand and only through human power and using the other hand/arm/back muscles, draw back the string at the time of the attempt on game. They draw back the bow and again through only human power hold whatever draw weight their bow is engineered for (be-it a recurve, a longbow or compound). If the shot does not work out, they have to let down with all the related motion and noise associated with that bowhunting action. Should they get another opportunity at that game animal, a bowhunter will have to (using only human power at the time of the attempt on game and now a bit fatigued from the first attempt) go through that draw and hold cycle again. Those physical limits define and separate bowhunters from crossbow guys. Training, practice, form human strength come together limiting the bowhunter to only such a weapon strength he is capable of drawing back. Those human motions and weight restriction based on the power of the user place limits and restrictions on a bowhunter making the sport the challenge that it is and has been. Its what makes the distinction between an animal killed with a human powered bow and arrow more of an accomplishment than those killed by stored energy and cocked weapons. Im glad you asked your question.

No. They are crossbow hunters (or whatever that sort is calling what they do). Bowhunters use a bow and arrow (human powered at the time of the attempt on game)

Gun hunters use a gun. Spear hunters use a spear. Crossbow hunters use a crossbow and bowhunters use a bow and arrow.

There is nothing wrong with being a crossbow hunter but they are not bowhunters as they dont make the same movements and actions as a hunter using a human powered bow and arrow.

DIY_guy

Imagine if you will that I am going to clean and press over my head a bar with 250 pounds of weights on it. Through human effort, I have to accomplish this. Now imagine we take that bar and suspend it from the ceiling with chains about 7 feet off the ground. A person walks up under the bar, grips it, the chains let go and for a brief moment that person holds the bar before dropping it to the ground. He looks at the guy that actually lifted the weight and says: "im a weightlifter just like you" No he is not, he is a poser.

Imagine I am paddling my canoe on a lake. A jetskier pulls along side and says, "Im a canoe'r just like you. Its got a hull and carries a passenger on the water. Dont bother me with the human powered effort crap. Im a canoe'r." No, he is a poser.

Im riding my bicycle on the road climbing a steep hill and a guy on a Yamaha pulls along side and says: "Im just like you" No, he is a poser.

Im playing golf and a guy shows up with a potato cannon that fires golf balls. He wants to join our 3-some. He says: "im a golfer just like you. Dont pester me with the human powered effort crap. Call me a golfer". No, he is a poser.

A bowhunter uses a human powered weapon that is only as powerful as he is able to handle. That is his limit for the shot attempts he can take. If a crossbower meets him in the woods and says: "im a bowhunter too, just like you". He should not be surprised if he is met with eye rolls.

He is a crossbower or crossbow hunter or whatever those guys call themselves. There is nothing wrong with that sort. I hope they enjoy what they do. They just are not bowhunters. The game they kill is not the same accomplishment as that of a bowhunter using human powered weaponry. They are certainly a hunter and probably a great person. They just are not bowhunters. They ought not pose as one. I support what they do and they certainly are hunters just like bird hunters are hunters and gun deer hunters are hunters, But they are not bowhunters.

Now, Im off to a log cutting event. Everyone there will be using an ax to fell trees. Im using a chainsaw. I will insist they consider what I do to be the exact same thing as they are accomplishing.

bronko22000

Well then like I said - we all have our own opinion. I feel that every person that using an arrow to take game as long as its legal is considered a bowhunter. I just don't agree with your definition of a bowhunter and that's fine. So we'll just agree to disagree.

JohnnyHildo

i with you man. lol