GAL220

Hi all,
Just a question to toss out there for you in the know guys.
I've noticed that companies like Hoyt, Bow Tech etc. won't deal directly with the consumer. An owner has to go through an authorized dealer for anything outside of warranty (and even in the case of a warranty issue). I called Hoyt the other day to check on price of another set of limbs. I have to drop down poundage for a shoulder injury. Anyway I was told to go to my dealer as "dealers set the pricing" or so I was told. I also heard/read that Hoyt doesn't release how many bows they sell every year. Pretty hush hush in the bow industry I guess. Thought's, comments, and knowledge would be appreciated.

Nomercy448

What you're describing is really not uncommon. Most firearms companies don't even sell directly to RETAILERS, let alone consumers (example: Mfg sells to davidsons/lipseys/etc, who in turn sell to your LGS). Per their warranties, you're never supposed to press your own bow, such that you wouldn't be able to install new limbs even if you could buy them, just like how Ruger won't sell their SP101 triggers or hammers and require that they're factory install only. Getting your transmission serviced on a Ford by anyone other than a Ford approved service center would void your drivetrain warranty (at least used to). Mfg regulated pricing isn't anything uncommon either, Remington controls the retail price you're allowed to mark up, OR DOWN, on their products, Foxpro does for their electronic predator calls as well. Ruger doesn't release (and I'm not sure if they actually know themselves) how many firearms of any given model that they produce in a given year. Production volume isn't something that usually gets published to customer service anyway, and with the tiered wholesaler and retailer order structure these places have, there really might not be more than 2 or 3 people within a company that have any idea how much volume they're selling.

Why is it any of your business? Operational level numbers aren't anybody's business except the company in question - Ford doesn't publish that it only costs them $3,000 to build a $13,000 economy model, Apple doesn't admit that there's only $27 dollars in hardware cost in an Iphone (making these numbers up as I go, of course), Walmart doesn't have to publish how much they pay their shift managers...

It's not deception, it's just none of your business.

cjclemens

I'm not sure what the question is here. Most companies prefer to sell parts through authorized dealers. Namely to cut down on frivolous warranty claims and reduce sales call volume for their own parts department. Could you imagine how busy Bowtech would be, if they had to take a call every time one of their customers had a limb fail?

Anyway, MAP pricing is a common thing in the retail world. Dealers pay a certain price for the bows. Then, they charge the consumer a higher price, to cover setup and make profit on each sale. Do some research and you can probably figure out what dealer price and MAP is on most bows on the market.

I'm not sure about stats on bow sales, but there's not really anything that says they have to share that info. The guys at the local bow shop, on the other hand, are more than happy to tell you exactly how many bows they set up and sold each week. Again, I'm not sure I know what the question is here, but I don't see any great conspiracy in the archery industry - at least, not any more of a conspiracy than there is in any other retail sector.

GAL220

Thanks guys
I was just wondering. Don't automatically assume that I want work on my own bow. Some, as in the case of my authorized Hoyt dealer, are not very good at communicating what is going on with pricing and the company. He couldn't pin down the price of limb replacement. I have called Kimber, Weatherby, and numerous other retailers with questions and pricing for my own info and was dealt with in a professional and open manner. I used to be an FFL seller (Lipsey's ,Davidsons) back in the Clinton era, so I totally understand the system. Bow manufacturers are somewhat more covert about their technological advancements, i.e. Carbon layup process etc. Hoyt has a secret area for the riser assembly, which is a fine idea. The Lady at Hoyt was very coy when it came to my questions.
I don't press my own bow and replace limbs or cables or strings, that's beyond my interest. When it comes to the number of units sold, it's an indicator of the companies success. Why that figure would be a secret is anyones guess. Disclosure shouldn't be a problem for a company on certain things. Since we're assuming here, I'll assume Nomercy448 voted for Obama since he lives by the creed "IT'S JUST NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". JK. Competition is tough now days so I guess protecting their "interests" is top priority. I am able to find most cost numbers on just about anything I buy, i phones, cars, trucks, guns etc. This is not about people making money in the capitalist system. I hope they are profitable as they possibly can. Consumers should always be treated with respect. Thanks for the input from both of you guys ! I guess it's not what it used to be. I'll "stick" with my stick bows . And my Carbon Spyder 34...........for now.

GAL220

CJ
I heard that Bow Tech had alot of limb blow ups. I guess they all have their problems. Good point though on call volume. It's not a conspiracy thing, it's just that I've noted a change in the way companies are doing business. It may be the person I talked to was having a bad day also. Thanks for your reply.

cjclemens

Every bow company has had issues of their own. I just used Bowtech as an example, but Hoyt, Mathews, Bear and many others have had problems at one point or another. To me, Customer service is what makes or breaks a company. I had a Bear that had limb issues last year, but they were quick to handle it, no questions asked. Based on the service I got, I'd shoot bear again in a heartbeat, if they would release a bow that interests me (but that's another story) Most bow companies have incredible warranties on their bows these days, which also factors into the cost of each one they sell. Bows are also pretty sensitive to improper care, use, and maintenance. In that regard, I can totally understand why bow makers are really particular about who sets up, inspects, and repairs their products. Another thing that they fear is people making "frankenbows" by mix and matching risers, limbs and cams. If you know what you're doing, it can make for some impressive results. On the other hand, a slight miscalculation can lead to damaged bow parts and personal injury...so I do get where they're coming from. And, yes there is always the possibility that you just got the wrong person at the end of a long crappy shift. But I just wanted to say that I don't think there's anything sinister going on in the industry. I actually think we're looking at the beginning of a recession for bow makers. The days of big gains in speed from the top end bows are over. They've more or less hit the limit of today's materials and manufacturing methods. Without those speed gains, it's gonna be really hard for people to justify buying that new flagship bow vs making last years model do for another season. I expect well see bow makers taking steps to tighten their belts and redefine the industry, now that the speed race is over. I think it's gonna be most interesting to see which companies weather the storm and how they manage to do it.

Valentine

is a small niche business that needs to protect itself as a niche market.
If you don't like it, find another niche hobby.

I know. Most of my hobbies have been niche hobbies.