Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
11-27-2008, 06:28 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: S. NH
Posts: 3,045
RE: Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
Let me start with "thinking" that all deer are like humans. So please step into "my mind" for a second...
Let's use me as an example.
I am 5' 5" tall and weigh 174lbs, kind of like a 55 gallon drum. (But really handsome, as mama said so!)
It just so happens that my best hunting buddy is 5' 10" and 178 lbs., which is obvious, nothing like me. (Different genetics - right)
Lets use my teeth as an example, I have had 1 cavity in my whole life.
My buddy is having a tooth pulled every couple of years. (I know it's cuz he's a rotten bastard)
Why does Austin Powers have bad teeth? (Maybe the region he lives in - England)
Genetics obviously plays a huge role and everyone knows this. Along with science and everything else mentioned so far in this post (Key words)
Take a look at your family today @ thanksgiving. I know my family will be looking at me and wondering why I am so damn good-looking!
We have the same genetics, but are still different, why?
They will stare until I feel uncomfortable and I will wonder why they stare?
And when we all give "thanks" at the table and I will have my answer, they will say, "we are thankful for our good-looking brother Eddy".
Now Shultzy, I know your thinking it must be the milk-man! But let's not go there, this is a family show.
Here's another thought to ponder about on the biologist side... Think about the news for a minute
When there is a death or homicide, police might make a re-creation of the individual, as they can picture them, when they where alive.
They will guess on the nose size, cheek bone structure, eye shape, maybe even hair color, etc..
They usually "guesstimate" an age group, say 20's on this deceased victim.
This is their "classification" to help with identifying the dead body to match with records for missing people, etc...
Wouldn't you think that with today's technology they could figure this out, as these people are the true experts? Well I don't, its just too cumbersome to figure out!
This leads me to believe the the game biologist have the same type of tasks, without the world's help trying to solve the crime scene
.
More...
Have you and your buddy ever looked at a good-looking MILF and say "wow - she has 15 kids but only looks 24".
Those are some good genetics, I mean big genetics!!!
Ok - Now I done, so please step back out of my mind, as there is only room for my other 10 voices
Let's use me as an example.
I am 5' 5" tall and weigh 174lbs, kind of like a 55 gallon drum. (But really handsome, as mama said so!)
It just so happens that my best hunting buddy is 5' 10" and 178 lbs., which is obvious, nothing like me. (Different genetics - right)
Lets use my teeth as an example, I have had 1 cavity in my whole life.
My buddy is having a tooth pulled every couple of years. (I know it's cuz he's a rotten bastard)
Why does Austin Powers have bad teeth? (Maybe the region he lives in - England)
Genetics obviously plays a huge role and everyone knows this. Along with science and everything else mentioned so far in this post (Key words)
Take a look at your family today @ thanksgiving. I know my family will be looking at me and wondering why I am so damn good-looking!
We have the same genetics, but are still different, why?
They will stare until I feel uncomfortable and I will wonder why they stare?
And when we all give "thanks" at the table and I will have my answer, they will say, "we are thankful for our good-looking brother Eddy".
Now Shultzy, I know your thinking it must be the milk-man! But let's not go there, this is a family show.
Here's another thought to ponder about on the biologist side... Think about the news for a minute
When there is a death or homicide, police might make a re-creation of the individual, as they can picture them, when they where alive.
They will guess on the nose size, cheek bone structure, eye shape, maybe even hair color, etc..
They usually "guesstimate" an age group, say 20's on this deceased victim.
This is their "classification" to help with identifying the dead body to match with records for missing people, etc...
Wouldn't you think that with today's technology they could figure this out, as these people are the true experts? Well I don't, its just too cumbersome to figure out!
This leads me to believe the the game biologist have the same type of tasks, without the world's help trying to solve the crime scene
.More...
Have you and your buddy ever looked at a good-looking MILF and say "wow - she has 15 kids but only looks 24".
Those are some good genetics, I mean big genetics!!!
Ok - Now I done, so please step back out of my mind, as there is only room for my other 10 voices
11-27-2008, 07:43 AM
#33
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
I have a hard time believing anything I hear from biologist when it comes to aging animals. I know for a fact they can't age a bear to save there ass's! I've sent many teeth In to the University of Minnesota for the biologist to age and some of the results I get back are mind blowing and complete BS!!
I have a hard time believing anything I hear from biologist when it comes to aging animals. I know for a fact they can't age a bear to save there ass's! I've sent many teeth In to the University of Minnesota for the biologist to age and some of the results I get back are mind blowing and complete BS!!
] Same thing in WI....a buddy shot a 300#+ dressed bear here and got the age back...."Congratulations, your bear is 1 year(s) old." 
11-27-2008, 08:25 AM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northwest MS
Posts: 515
RE: Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
[quote]ORIGINAL: Edcyclopedia
Let me start with "thinking" that all deer are like humans. So please step into "my mind" for a second...
Let's use me as an example.
I am 5' 5" tall and weigh 174lbs, kind of like a 55 gallon drum. (But really handsome, as mama said so!)
It just so happens that my best hunting buddy is 5' 10" and 178 lbs., which is obvious, nothing like me. (Different genetics - right)
Lets use my teeth as an example, I have had 1 cavity in my whole life.
My buddy is having a tooth pulled every couple of years. (I know it's cuz he's a rotten bastard)
Why does Austin Powers have bad teeth? (Maybe the region he lives in - England)
Genetics obviously plays a huge role and everyone knows this. Along with science and everything else mentioned so far in this post (Key words)
Take a look at your family today @ thanksgiving. I know my family will be looking at me and wondering why I am so damn good-looking!
We have the same genetics, but are still different, why?
They will stare until I feel uncomfortable and I will wonder why they stare?
And when we all give "thanks" at the table and I will have my answer, they will say, "we are thankful for our good-looking brother Eddy".
Now Shultzy, I know your thinking it must be the milk-man! But let's not go there, this is a family show.
Here's another thought to ponder about on the biologist side... Think about the news for a minute
When there is a death or homicide, police might make a re-creation of the individual, as they can picture them, when they where alive.
They will guess on the nose size, cheek bone structure, eye shape, maybe even hair color, etc..
They usually "guesstimate" an age group, say 20's on this deceased victim.
This is their "classification" to help with identifying the dead body to match with records for missing people, etc...
Wouldn't you think that with today's technology they could figure this out, as these people are the true experts? Well I don't, its just too cumbersome to figure out!
This leads me to believe the the game biologist have the same type of tasks, without the world's help trying to solve the crime scene.
More...
Have you and your buddy ever looked at a good-looking MILF and say "wow - she has 15 kids but only looks 24".
Those are some good genetics, I mean big genetics!!!
Ok - Now I done, so please step back out of my mind, as there is only room for my other 10 voices[quote]
Now that is funny stuff Edcyclopedia. I spit some of my diet coke out laughing while reading this. I know I'm from Mississippi, but I can usually read and drink at the same time.
Greg, I am anxious to hear your final results. I'm not sure how final they will be though.
Chris
Let me start with "thinking" that all deer are like humans. So please step into "my mind" for a second...
Let's use me as an example.
I am 5' 5" tall and weigh 174lbs, kind of like a 55 gallon drum. (But really handsome, as mama said so!)
It just so happens that my best hunting buddy is 5' 10" and 178 lbs., which is obvious, nothing like me. (Different genetics - right)
Lets use my teeth as an example, I have had 1 cavity in my whole life.
My buddy is having a tooth pulled every couple of years. (I know it's cuz he's a rotten bastard)
Why does Austin Powers have bad teeth? (Maybe the region he lives in - England)
Genetics obviously plays a huge role and everyone knows this. Along with science and everything else mentioned so far in this post (Key words)
Take a look at your family today @ thanksgiving. I know my family will be looking at me and wondering why I am so damn good-looking!
We have the same genetics, but are still different, why?
They will stare until I feel uncomfortable and I will wonder why they stare?
And when we all give "thanks" at the table and I will have my answer, they will say, "we are thankful for our good-looking brother Eddy".
Now Shultzy, I know your thinking it must be the milk-man! But let's not go there, this is a family show.
Here's another thought to ponder about on the biologist side... Think about the news for a minute
When there is a death or homicide, police might make a re-creation of the individual, as they can picture them, when they where alive.
They will guess on the nose size, cheek bone structure, eye shape, maybe even hair color, etc..
They usually "guesstimate" an age group, say 20's on this deceased victim.
This is their "classification" to help with identifying the dead body to match with records for missing people, etc...
Wouldn't you think that with today's technology they could figure this out, as these people are the true experts? Well I don't, its just too cumbersome to figure out!
This leads me to believe the the game biologist have the same type of tasks, without the world's help trying to solve the crime scene
.More...
Have you and your buddy ever looked at a good-looking MILF and say "wow - she has 15 kids but only looks 24".
Those are some good genetics, I mean big genetics!!!
Ok - Now I done, so please step back out of my mind, as there is only room for my other 10 voices
[quote]Now that is funny stuff Edcyclopedia. I spit some of my diet coke out laughing while reading this. I know I'm from Mississippi, but I can usually read and drink at the same time.
Greg, I am anxious to hear your final results. I'm not sure how final they will be though.
Chris
11-27-2008, 08:47 AM
#35
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
RE: Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
ORIGINAL: Edcyclopedia
Let me start with "thinking" that all deer are like humans. So please step into "my mind" for a second...
Let's use me as an example.
I am 5' 5" tall and weigh 174lbs, kind of like a 55 gallon drum. (But really handsome, as mama said so!)
It just so happens that my best hunting buddy is 5' 10" and 178 lbs., which is obvious, nothing like me. (Different genetics - right)
Lets use my teeth as an example, I have had 1 cavity in my whole life.
My buddy is having a tooth pulled every couple of years. (I know it's cuz he's a rotten bastard)
Why does Austin Powers have bad teeth? (Maybe the region he lives in - England)
Genetics obviously plays a huge role and everyone knows this. Along with science and everything else mentioned so far in this post (Key words)
Take a look at your family today @ thanksgiving. I know my family will be looking at me and wondering why I am so damn good-looking!
We have the same genetics, but are still different, why?
They will stare until I feel uncomfortable and I will wonder why they stare?
And when we all give "thanks" at the table and I will have my answer, they will say, "we are thankful for our good-looking brother Eddy".
Now Shultzy, I know your thinking it must be the milk-man! But let's not go there, this is a family show.
Here's another thought to ponder about on the biologist side... Think about the news for a minute
When there is a death or homicide, police might make a re-creation of the individual, as they can picture them, when they where alive.
They will guess on the nose size, cheek bone structure, eye shape, maybe even hair color, etc..
They usually "guesstimate" an age group, say 20's on this deceased victim.
This is their "classification" to help with identifying the dead body to match with records for missing people, etc...
Wouldn't you think that with today's technology they could figure this out, as these people are the true experts? Well I don't, its just too cumbersome to figure out!
This leads me to believe the the game biologist have the same type of tasks, without the world's help trying to solve the crime scene.
More...
Have you and your buddy ever looked at a good-looking MILF and say "wow - she has 15 kids but only looks 24".
Those are some good genetics, I mean big genetics!!!
Ok - Now I done, so please step back out of my mind, as there is only room for my other 10 voices
Let me start with "thinking" that all deer are like humans. So please step into "my mind" for a second...
Let's use me as an example.
I am 5' 5" tall and weigh 174lbs, kind of like a 55 gallon drum. (But really handsome, as mama said so!)
It just so happens that my best hunting buddy is 5' 10" and 178 lbs., which is obvious, nothing like me. (Different genetics - right)
Lets use my teeth as an example, I have had 1 cavity in my whole life.
My buddy is having a tooth pulled every couple of years. (I know it's cuz he's a rotten bastard)
Why does Austin Powers have bad teeth? (Maybe the region he lives in - England)
Genetics obviously plays a huge role and everyone knows this. Along with science and everything else mentioned so far in this post (Key words)
Take a look at your family today @ thanksgiving. I know my family will be looking at me and wondering why I am so damn good-looking!
We have the same genetics, but are still different, why?
They will stare until I feel uncomfortable and I will wonder why they stare?
And when we all give "thanks" at the table and I will have my answer, they will say, "we are thankful for our good-looking brother Eddy".
Now Shultzy, I know your thinking it must be the milk-man! But let's not go there, this is a family show.
Here's another thought to ponder about on the biologist side... Think about the news for a minute
When there is a death or homicide, police might make a re-creation of the individual, as they can picture them, when they where alive.
They will guess on the nose size, cheek bone structure, eye shape, maybe even hair color, etc..
They usually "guesstimate" an age group, say 20's on this deceased victim.
This is their "classification" to help with identifying the dead body to match with records for missing people, etc...
Wouldn't you think that with today's technology they could figure this out, as these people are the true experts? Well I don't, its just too cumbersome to figure out!
This leads me to believe the the game biologist have the same type of tasks, without the world's help trying to solve the crime scene
.More...
Have you and your buddy ever looked at a good-looking MILF and say "wow - she has 15 kids but only looks 24".
Those are some good genetics, I mean big genetics!!!
Ok - Now I done, so please step back out of my mind, as there is only room for my other 10 voices
11-27-2008, 06:38 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S. Illinois
Posts: 1,325
RE: Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
[quote]ORIGINAL: GregH
Guys,
I took the jaw bone from the deer I shot this year to a good friend of mine to see what he thought it's age was. This guy is more experienced than I am when it comes to old deer. He has hunted the same area that I am since the seventies. He has also taken a lot of P&Y bucks and a couple of B&C non-typicals. In short, I believe that he knows what he's talking about.
Based on him seeing the deer and the jaw bone, he came up with 8 1/2 like I did. When we age a deer, we look at many different things. Antler mass, shape and size along with body size andshape, foot wear. One more thing we've been looking at is the thickness of the skull plates. The thinking is that as the buck gets older, his skull plate thickens. This one is over 3/8" thick. Any thoughts on this? This does not imply that we are 100% accurate, but I think we are in the ball park. Another thing to take into consideration is the location and available food sources for the deer. Where this buck lived the soil and food are not as harsh on the teeth as a sandy soiled or total browse location.
The pics are not as good as I thought. They leave out a lot of 3-d detail. Maybe I'll try again.
First a 6 1/2 year old
[quote]ORIGINAL: GregH
Greg,
My taxidermist and I have also noticed this. I do think this might be something that is worth studying more to help age deer. The skull plate definitely gets thicker with age!
Guys,
I took the jaw bone from the deer I shot this year to a good friend of mine to see what he thought it's age was. This guy is more experienced than I am when it comes to old deer. He has hunted the same area that I am since the seventies. He has also taken a lot of P&Y bucks and a couple of B&C non-typicals. In short, I believe that he knows what he's talking about.
Based on him seeing the deer and the jaw bone, he came up with 8 1/2 like I did. When we age a deer, we look at many different things. Antler mass, shape and size along with body size andshape, foot wear. One more thing we've been looking at is the thickness of the skull plates. The thinking is that as the buck gets older, his skull plate thickens. This one is over 3/8" thick. Any thoughts on this? This does not imply that we are 100% accurate, but I think we are in the ball park. Another thing to take into consideration is the location and available food sources for the deer. Where this buck lived the soil and food are not as harsh on the teeth as a sandy soiled or total browse location.
The pics are not as good as I thought. They leave out a lot of 3-d detail. Maybe I'll try again.
First a 6 1/2 year old
[quote]ORIGINAL: GregH
Greg,
My taxidermist and I have also noticed this. I do think this might be something that is worth studying more to help age deer. The skull plate definitely gets thicker with age!
11-28-2008, 08:22 AM
#38
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
RE: Aging deer (Jaw bone pics)
Greg- In whatever scientific discussion we have hadin this threadregarding tooth wear or age in general, please don't think for a second I in anyway would attempt to diminish your accomplishments with either of those deer by discussing their age.Both are obviously mature, exceptional trophies in anyones eyes and either would be a buck-in-a-lifetime for a majority of hunters. Congrats again.
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