Is there anything wrong with a lot of does??

[Bullet Hole Bailey]

So I hear a lot about "deer management" and how its good to shoot the does and I guess I just have never completely understood this. I mean, if you have more does, wouldnt that result in more deer and therefore atleast some of those would have to be bucks which means more deer?? Or am I missing something in there. I just dont understand how the taking of does manages the herd, if you had more does, the herd would get bigger which would be a good thing...right?? So help me out here guys, I just dont totally understand the whole point behind shooting the does. I in no way think its wrong or something that shouldnt be done, because I understand it is a good thing to take the old and mature animals out witch would be the old does, but I just dont get how it "helps" the herd....

Any input it appreciated!!

Thanks guys!

[GMMAT]

OK BHB.....come along for a ride into "My world".....

To answer your question, plainly.....NO. There's nothing wrong with a lot of does. The caveat is, though.....IF you also have a lot of bucks. What you're striving for is a better "balance" (buck:doe ratio). 1:1 would be ideal....but 1:2 wouldn't be anything to sneeze at, either.

Nothing wrong with a lot of does.....until they become too many for the property to sustain (overflow the carrying capacity for the land they inhabit). You could be heavily doe laden (as far as buck:doe ratio)....but as far as "I" am concerned....still...just having a lot of does wouldn't be the end of the world.

OK.....so let's say you DO have too many does for your area....OR....your buck:doe ratio is out of whack (these are the issues that face a LOT of guys who post here). I disagree on only taking the most mature animals from the herd. I think you'd be better served in taking out does from across the age spectrum. Some bios back this....but it's far from being set in stone (as the best method).

Also...I think it's important to note.....that most people have a VERY unrealistic (in a negative way) view of their buck:dpe ratio. I know I used to.....until I learned more about it. It's impossible for it to get to numbers I see cited here, sometimes. When you see guys saying it's 1:10 and even hogher.....throw up your bull**** meter's red flag. It's mathematically impossible for this to occur.

A deer herd with a buck:doe ratio of 1:1 creates competition for mating (good for hunters). I'd love to see LESS deer.....but more bucks. I have too many does, here.....and that's why I target them when it makes sense in my hunts to take them (I even go into some hunts looking for a doe).

Other things....

1. Does will push bucks off of food sources if they heavily outnumber them.
2. Bucks use a TREMENDOUS amount of energy during the rut. The more does they have to try to breed.....the more energy they have to use doing that .....instead of using that energy to build their bodies and their racks.
3. Bucks, by nature, are a more solitary creature. This is why MANY (including myself, previously) think their buck:doe ratio is worse than it really is. They're just not seeing the bucks.....but they're seeing a lot of does. SO they put 2 and 2 together......kinda. Bucks won't want to frequent areas that are heavily doe laden. It goes against their survival instinct to be so visible as to be seen with a larger herd. They'll (some of them) chance a bachelor group.....but a large group isn't normally in their makeup. There are exceptions to this....the rut....winter yarding....etc...but in general....bucks don't hag out where a lot of does hang out. I've had to learn this, too.

I hope if you have more questions you'll send me a PM. Jeff knows - Too many does.

If I screwed this up....I'm sure someone will set me straight....but I've done a LOT of reading on this subject...as it's one close to my heart.

[deer_predator]

Well said GMMAT!

[rybohunter]

Besides all the good stuff that Jeff hit on, what you also have to take into account is the amount of total deer for the habitat too. Different places can support different amounts of deer. There can be too many deer which basically eat themselves out of an area and to long term harm to the habitat.

Lastly at least in populated areas, human/deer conflict is another factor for the need to control does. People don"™t like hitting them with cars(and no it NOT the insurance company conspiracy), and people don"™t like deer eating their expensive landscaping plants.

[minnesotadeer]

ORIGINAL: rybohunter

and people don"™t like deer eating their expensive landscaping plants.

I solved this one for my wife this year by buying some liquid fence. I sprayed that stuff all over the foundation plants and her flower gardens once or twice a month and nothing touched them, but the neighbor's sure got hit hard later in the Summer. And I know why, the next time you're in the hardware store, smell some of that stuff. It smells like somone had stomach problems and vacated themselves into the bottle. But it works!

[njbuck22]

Jeff, i agree with everything you mentioned, but why is it impossible to have a way out of wack buck to doe ratio like 1 to 10?I know that bucks and does are bred at about a 50:50 ratio, actually i think its alittle more in favor of bucks, but In high pressured areas, such as one property that i hunt, anything with horns on his head is shot. Is there any research that you have found that proves this?

[Schultzy]

Besides what everyone has said (good Info by the way) by not taking any doe's out your buck/doe ratio will get way out of wack which normally Is already and you will then start to see doe's without fawns being not all the doe's got bred during there estrus period. Reason being, too many doe's and not enough bucks to get er done! In reality your deer population In general will actually suffer because of this. What good are all the doe's running around If you have no bucks to do any breeding? This Is a major problem In my area I hunt In. Too many doe's without fawns and not nearly enough bucks. IMO they need to give out more anterless only tags In some area's to even out the herd somewhat.

[DowningAir]

Good info GMMAT, we appreciate it. Answers a lot of questions that I had myself. Just a question on one thing you said...

OK.....so let's say you DO have too many does for your area....OR....your buck:doe ratio is out of whack (these are the issues that face a LOT of guys who post here). I disagree on only taking the most mature animals from the herd. I think you'd be better served in taking out does from across the age spectrum. Some bios back this....but it's far from being set in stone (as the best method).

Why is this?Wouldthis affect the competition for does in estrous, or would it bring a better balance age-wise, or...?

[TreednNC]

Well said GMMAT

[Rob/PA Bowyer]

Kudos Jeff.