Situation Ethics????........2 Part Question .....**UPDATED WITH twils real life situation

[bawanajim]

Until you see trespassing as a crime against a specific individual and not against a society you will not see the underlying fault in your argument.
Its called private property rights and as much as you despise them they are what separates us from our European friends whom are not allowed to hunt any longer.[:-]

[PreacherTony]

ORIGINAL: TEmbry

So it would be stealing the plane, but not the deer? How would the cops be able to retrieve your plane, but not the deer?

GREAT point ....... on the walkin into someone's house thing .....let's remember ..... it's trespassing EVERYWHERE to walk into someone's house .... but there are states where it is LEGAL to walk on some else's land to retrieve a dead deer

[Germ]

ORIGINAL: Charlie P

Your going to rewind the hose up right?

Yep

[BigJ71]

ORIGINAL: TEmbry

So it would be stealing the plane, but not the deer? How would the cops be able to retrieve your plane, but not the deer?

I just dont understand, but its ok, that seems to happen alot

Well this is where game laws come into play.....in some states it's NOT YOUR DEER until it's recovered, the plane can be easily proved yours, a deer (in some states) not so easy. I stated more than once that I'd go through the proper channels to get my deer including the police if need be. Depending on the laws of your state that may be enough, then all is good, I get my deer and break no laws in the process. In other states however it's not so easy and you still may not be able to retrieve your deer. In no situations however is it ok to simply trespass though...

[PreacherTony]

This has some good reading in it

Trespass law
Although criminal and civil trespass laws vary from each jurisdiction, most have the following facets in common:
[ul][*]Property owners and their agents (for example, security guards) may only use reasonable force to protect their property. For example, setting booby traps on a property to hurt trespassers or shooting at trespassers are usually strictly forbidden except in extreme circumstances.[*]Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter the private portion of the premises, and therefore be a trespasser. In a more recent case, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to get government permits to solicit door-to-door in Stratton, Ohio. In 2002, the case was heard in the U.S. Supreme Court (). The Court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses, holding that making it a misdemeanor to engage in door-to-door advocacy without first registering with the mayor and receiving a permit violate the first Amendment as it applies to religious proselytizing, anonymous political speech, and the distribution of handbills.[1] [/ul]
[ul][*]Most jurisdictions do not allow "self-help" to remove trespassers. The usual procedure is to ask the trespassing person to leave, then to call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is usually illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving. A large exception to this rule are railroads in the United States and Canada, who employ their own police forces to enforce state or provincial trespassing laws. Railroad police have the ability to independently arrest and prosecute trespassers without the approval or assistance of local law enforcement. Further, in many jurisdictions, trespassing on railroad tracks is considered a very severe offense comparable to drunk driving and marijuana possession with fines that may even surpass the latter two crimes. [/ul]



[/align]A sign warning against trespassing at Mater Dei High School in New Jersey[/align][/align][/align][ul][*]Most, though not all, jurisdictions allow "Benevolent Trespassing" for extreme situations. For example, if you have a car accident and somebody is injured, you may legally force entry into an empty building to call an ambulance. Similarly, if a structure is burning, one may forcibly enter to rescue persons trapped inside. The law assumes people will make a reasonable effort to notify property owners if possible.[*]Similarly "Good Samaritan" laws take precedent over property laws where applicable. Civilians are afforded certain protection in emergencies - people cannot generally sue their would-be rescuers for breaking ribs attempting CPR, or damaging property while helping a person in need. Obviously, professionals (EMT, Doctors, etc) are held to a higher standard, even when they're not "on the clock."[*]Marking property as private property can be done in a variety of ways. The most obvious way is to put up a sign saying "No Trespassing" or "Private Property". However, a continuous fence has the same effect in most places. Many jurisdictions allow the use of markers when fencing would be impractical or expensive. For example, Ontario, Canada allows the use of red paint on landmarks such as trees to mark the boundaries of private property.[*]Property owners may allow some trespasses while excluding others. For example a sign saying just "No Hunting" could conceivably allow hiking, snowmobiling, or bird-watching, but would give notice to hunters that they would be trespassing if they entered onto the property.[*]Trespass is not limited to human beings. For example, the owner of cattle or dogs may be responsible for an animal's trespass in some jurisdictions. Further by causing an object to enter a property one can committ an act of trespass, whether it be earthworks, flood water, or objects thrown onto the property or allowed to travel onto the property.[/ul]

[Madjac20]

ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

[align=left]Ok .... let's hear what you think ..... also, has either happened to you?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 1.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You found a great spot just 30 yards from someone else's property that you DON'T have permission to hunt ..... the biggest buck you have ever seen walks the fence line on HIS property ... he is walking slowly, stopping for 10 seconds at a time ... it is obvious he is just going to follow the fence line away from the property you hunt ..... do you shoot?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 2.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You are hunting from the same stand, the previous scenario has not happened, the same buck comes by on the property you are hunting, you drill him at 20 yards ... he runs, jumps the fence, then dies 10 yards on the other property ... again. you have been told that you will be prosecuted if the landowner ever found you on his property ...... do you get the buck? In the area you are hunting, the neighbor is great friends with the CO and there is not a law stating that he has to let you recover your deer.....[/align][align=left][/align]

Laws can be very confusing...This is listed as "unlawful activities" in the 2008/2009 Georgia hunting regulations:

""“ Hunt without landowners"™ permission

including power line, gas line, railroad and

other rights-of-way. Written permission must

be obtained if land is so posted."

then a little later this:

""“ Kill or cripple game without reasonable

efforts to retrieve."

So, I guess I'm shooting if the deer is on my side of the fence, if the deer jumps the "fence" I'll give the old "mistermay I please getthe deer that I shot on my land andhas died on yours" routine. Kind of like when we were kids and our ball went into the "crabby old ladies" backyard, you know the one you swore was a witch.

[PreacherTony]

ORIGINAL: Madjac20

Laws can be very confusing...This is listed as "unlawful activities" in the 2008/2009 Georgia hunting regulations:
[align=left]""“ Hunt without landowners"™ permission[/align][align=left]including power line, gas line, railroad and[/align][align=left]other rights-of-way. Written permission must[/align][align=left]be obtained if land is so posted."[/align][align=left]then a little later this:[/align][align=left]""“ Kill or cripple game without reasonable[/align][align=left]efforts to retrieve."[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]So, I guess I'm shooting if the deer is on my side of the fence, if the deer jumps the "fence" I'll give the old "mistermay I please getthe deer that I shot on my land andhas died on yours" routine. Kind of like when we were kids and our ball went into the "crabby old ladies" backyard, you know the one you swore was a witch.[/align]

and if he says, "no" ?

[Madjac20]

ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

and if he says, "no" ?

If he says "no" I might try contacting DNR to help resolve this issue, if that failsI can rest a little easier (not much, but some) knowning I did everything I could to keep from breaking any laws. To help ease the pain, I still have an un-used tag.

[Goodgrief]

ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

This has some good reading in it

Trespass law
Although criminal and civil trespass laws vary from each jurisdiction, most have the following facets in common:
[ul][*]Property owners and their agents (for example, security guards) may only use reasonable force to protect their property. For example, setting booby traps on a property to hurt trespassers or shooting at trespassers are usually strictly forbidden except in extreme circumstances.[*]Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter the private portion of the premises, and therefore be a trespasser. In a more recent case, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to get government permits to solicit door-to-door in Stratton, Ohio. In 2002, the case was heard in the U.S. Supreme Court (). The Court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses, holding that making it a misdemeanor to engage in door-to-door advocacy without first registering with the mayor and receiving a permit violate the first Amendment as it applies to religious proselytizing, anonymous political speech, and the distribution of handbills.[1] [/ul]
[ul][*]Most jurisdictions do not allow "self-help" to remove trespassers. The usual procedure is to ask the trespassing person to leave, then to call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is usually illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving. A large exception to this rule are railroads in the United States and Canada, who employ their own police forces to enforce state or provincial trespassing laws. Railroad police have the ability to independently arrest and prosecute trespassers without the approval or assistance of local law enforcement. Further, in many jurisdictions, trespassing on railroad tracks is considered a very severe offense comparable to drunk driving and marijuana possession with fines that may even surpass the latter two crimes. [/ul]




[/align]A sign warning against trespassing at Mater Dei High School in New Jersey
[/align][/align][/align][ul][*]Most, though not all, jurisdictions allow "Benevolent Trespassing" for extreme situations. For example, if you have a car accident and somebody is injured, you may legally force entry into an empty building to call an ambulance. Similarly, if a structure is burning, one may forcibly enter to rescue persons trapped inside. The law assumes people will make a reasonable effort to notify property owners if possible.[*]Similarly "Good Samaritan" laws take precedent over property laws where applicable. Civilians are afforded certain protection in emergencies - people cannot generally sue their would-be rescuers for breaking ribs attempting CPR, or damaging property while helping a person in need. Obviously, professionals (EMT, Doctors, etc) are held to a higher standard, even when they're not "on the clock."[*]Marking property as private property can be done in a variety of ways. The most obvious way is to put up a sign saying "No Trespassing" or "Private Property". However, a continuous fence has the same effect in most places. Many jurisdictions allow the use of markers when fencing would be impractical or expensive. For example, Ontario, Canada allows the use of red paint on landmarks such as trees to mark the boundaries of private property.[*]Property owners may allow some trespasses while excluding others. For example a sign saying just "No Hunting" could conceivably allow hiking, snowmobiling, or bird-watching, but would give notice to hunters that they would be trespassing if they entered onto the property.[*]Trespass is not limited to human beings. For example, the owner of cattle or dogs may be responsible for an animal's trespass in some jurisdictions. Further by causing an object to enter a property one can committ an act of trespass, whether it be earthworks, flood water, or objects thrown onto the property or allowed to travel onto the property.[/ul]

Actually, my neighbor with whom I have a mere wave of the hand relationship with, plugged his cord into my
"exterior" outlet for a hour or so while I was at work, to run a drill. When I came home, he told me about it and offered 20 bucks. With that same wave of a hand, I said naw thats ok but thanks for saying you did! I didn't feel violated, I didn't think he stole from me either. Just kinda felt neighborly. Not for nuth'n, but what is the penalty for tresspess anyway, and how do you think they came to that figure?

[BigJ71]

Ok,

I've got a question for all of those who think it's ok to jump a fence and grab your deer even though the property is posted and you know full well the owner doesn't want you on the property..........how far is too far? I really want to know. Where do YOU draw the line? If 3 feet is ok then how about 10 yards? Where isthe point when you say "I shouldn't go there"? I really want to know.

To me if your willing to go 3 yards then you might as well go all the way into the property. Do you believe the last 3 feet, 10 yards (or whatever your threshold is) of a persons property is less theirs because it just happens to butt up against the property you can be on?

I really want to know where you guys draw the line and how you justify that part of the property less important or less privatethan the parts you won't go..........enlighten me.