First off, let me say if this is in the wrong forum, sorry, please move, wasn't sure what this would fall under.
Secondly, if I am wrong in any of my assumptions for how the angle compensators in a few of the range finders work, please correct me, but from the cheap seats it looks like a scam.
I took a little time to whip this up:
All numbers are feet (plus some extra on the angled parts) all numbers are just for illustration.
Stand was set at 20 feet up with the ranges taken at 5' above the platform height, of course the higher you go up the tree the steeper the angle and the angled numbers will go up accordingly.
Now, the way I understand how the angle adjusment feature in a range finder works, is it takes the LOS (line of sight) from where you are standing to a point on the ground, or as seen above, to the first, deer (or the best deer I could draw) then it does a simple conversion with the angle the range finder is at in relation to the LOS and calculates the distance the deer would be from you if you were standing at the base of the tree on flat ground.
Great, but what good does that do you? The arrow still has to travel the LOS distance, right? Which with the above example means even though the range finder says the deer is 30 feet way, in reality it is almost 37 feet away (ya, I know, 12 yards instead of 10 yards should smoke them regardless)
Even at longer ranges, say rifle, the bullet will be travelling the LOS distance never the flat land distance.
Am I seeing this wrong? or is it a pure gimmick by the range finder manufacturers to try and squeeze a couple more bucks out of you?
I agree. I think it is a useless gimmic under normal treestand bowhunting situations.
Now, for shooting long range bow shots in the mountains or for rifle hunting in the mountains, it would be handy.
But if you are less than about 22 feet up in a tree, it just ain't gonna matter enough to make a difference. Just bend at the waist, and shoot the HORIZONTAL distance and you'll be just fine.
Like stated above, say you were shooting a rifleat a deer up a 30degree slop, 150yards away, you would probably aim as if that deer were at 100yards out. So, in those cases, I think the ARC range finders would be a viable asset.
This is the part I dont understand, LOS is what you want, 150 yards is 150 yards because that is how far that bullet needs to travel, whether you are standing on flat ground or you are stand on a 30degree slope.
Take a normal bullet trajectory (like the ones on an ammo box) now take that trajectory and tilt it up 30 degrees, what has changed? the angle, thats it, the bullet is still going to fly the same (or arrow) unless you air shooting it straight up in the air.
But take into account I am a flatlander also, so this is all hypothetical for me well the tree stand part isn't
gravity is the single biggest factor in causeing your arrow to drop, the further it travels HORIZONTALLY the more time gravity has to pull it back down to earth. The vertical distance (the extra 6.6' in your 30' scenario) doesn't matter because its vertical, ie. dropping already. Gravity effects the horizontal distance only, so these devices eliminate the vertical portion of your arrows flight for you.
Not trying to say it isn't gimmiky, but for someone like me with a slow bow 36' is 20% increase over 30', it could make a bit of differance. The question that remains is how much arrow drop can be attributed to gravity versus the slowing effect of friction as the arrow cuts thru the atmosphere?
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"guns aren't for killing people, guns are for killing dangerous and delicious animals"
- Homer Simpson
I got this free from the owner (he was giving away free samples, and I happend to luck out on one! [8D])
I have played around with it and, honestly, it DOES work. I'm not sure about hilly terrain or side slopes, but on level ground, it works great. It "does the math" for you, so you don't have to second guess your range.
They are a very usefull tool for someone that hunts hills,even on 30 yard shots.I should say especially on 30 yard shots,the steeper the angle,the bigger the difference.
Normall stand situations,they are useless but I have 1 stand that a 35 yard shot needs to be shot as a 30 and I don't hunt big hills at all,just this particular stand is on a hill.
You seem to be a bit confused as the purpose,you DO NOT shoot for the line of sight but rather for the horizontal distance because of gravity,the arrrow only covers the 30 yards in your example with gravity working against it.Gravity doesn't know there is a hill or angle there.
One more thing the angle range finder does is account for trajectory which a right triangle or pathagorean theorem does not do but that is a very slight difference.
I have a Nikon Laser 440 and never have any worries...I have taken deer from my stand at 43 yards with this range finder and the arrow hits right on...this is all I know.....
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"Cherish your time in the woods"
I am going to keep playing devils advocate, even though mob rule seems to be saying that these things are legit,
[align=left]Gravity is a constant, be it at ground level or 60 feet in the air, (9.81m/(s*s)) if memory serves me correctly.
As for trajectory, the pathagorean will hold true.
Target shooting, at 10/20/30 yards, you are shooting from one point to another, and automatically compensating for the trajectory (arc) of the arrow. This would hold true from an elevated position also, no?
And finally, how can a range finder determine true trajectory lacking the mass and velocity of the projectile? (I suppose you could bring elevation into the mix also which would affect the density of the air)
Or finally (finally this time I promise) is the horizontal distance what I have always compensated from the stand on the close shots to aim a bit lower on the deer, I always thought I was trying to keep the deer from ducking the shot.....
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Whats the deal with the angle range finders?
well the tree stand part isn't
