Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
08-08-2007, 07:37 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Quincy, IL
Posts: 188
Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
My uncle and I got into a long debate regarding the harvesting of does. He doesn't believe that reducing the doe population actually helps your huntingand here were a couple of the points he made that really got my attention:
1. More does = More deer = More Bucks
2. Bucks will have more does to chase in the fall making them move longer into the season.
We live in Illinois so there always seems to be an abundance of food during the season. What do you guys think..is harvesting does really the right thing to do???
1. More does = More deer = More Bucks
2. Bucks will have more does to chase in the fall making them move longer into the season.
We live in Illinois so there always seems to be an abundance of food during the season. What do you guys think..is harvesting does really the right thing to do???
08-08-2007, 07:39 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 411
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: JohnnyLonghorns
2. Bucks will have more does to chase in the fall making them move longer into the season.
2. Bucks will have more does to chase in the fall making them move longer into the season.
08-08-2007, 07:43 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: JohnnyLonghorns
My uncle and I got into a long debate regarding the harvesting of does.
My uncle and I got into a long debate regarding the harvesting of does.
08-08-2007, 07:43 AM
#5
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
more does = more deer = more bucks = more mouths to feed. The land can only carry so many deer before they run out of food.
If shooting does really didn't help, and it was the wrong thing to do.......There are a HELL of a lot of outfitters and folks doing it wrong for a long time.....
If shooting does really didn't help, and it was the wrong thing to do.......There are a HELL of a lot of outfitters and folks doing it wrong for a long time.....
08-08-2007, 07:45 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cenral Illinois
Posts: 3,180
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
With more does, there is less competition to breed, making bucks actually move less. I see this every year at home, in the UP. We have a buck to doe ratio of anywhere in the neighborhood or 10:1 to 25:1 in some areas. These bucks never even have to leave their home areas to find does to breed, plus you have every buck in that area breeding does, be in spikes or monsters. Two years ago, I had a button buck try to breed a doe because there were no other bucks around.
08-08-2007, 07:46 AM
#7
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
More does, more food sources need to feed them and/or pushing more deer off you property. OR reducing the amount of food in the area for all deer leading to poorer quality deer. If he doesnt believe you, take him to a state park. We have been having to thin the deer on our state parks here in Texas because of the poor health of the the herds. The state has been drawing hunts for the state parks here. The deer taken are scrawny, but that is due to the over population.
You could expain the principle of an ecosystem having a carrying capacity. If that capacity is filled with doe, then the bucks will have to move on or suffer. Kinda like choosing to live in the over populated geto or moving to the burbs.
You could expain the principle of an ecosystem having a carrying capacity. If that capacity is filled with doe, then the bucks will have to move on or suffer. Kinda like choosing to live in the over populated geto or moving to the burbs.
08-08-2007, 07:48 AM
#8
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Salem Missouri
Posts: 1,455
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
Well in my opinion,, both of his arguements are wrong,, why??
1. The land will only holda certain number of deer. So by shooting more bucks than does, the herd gets out of balance.. Then you have meny more does than bucks, therefore having more fawns per year, and increasing the population, and more mouths to feed. By taking more does, it keeps them closer to a 1 to 1 ratio, which is healthier for the deer, and also better for your hunting during the rut...
2.When you have an out of balance herd, the bucks will actually move less, because of the number of does,, they dont have to travel and move anywhere to find a doe to breed. Therefore there is less sign to pattern, and the bucks stay holed up in the brush with the does that are there. If there is a lower doe population, the bucks will be up on their feet more, trying to find a receptive doe to breed.
Unless you already have a nice ratio of bucks to does, 1 to 1 or 2 to 1, its only going to help by taking some does each year. Depending on your ration how many you should take, but theres not many places anymore that dont need does removed from the herds. These are just my opinions, and if Im wrong I hope someone tells us. But I hope I helped out.
1. The land will only holda certain number of deer. So by shooting more bucks than does, the herd gets out of balance.. Then you have meny more does than bucks, therefore having more fawns per year, and increasing the population, and more mouths to feed. By taking more does, it keeps them closer to a 1 to 1 ratio, which is healthier for the deer, and also better for your hunting during the rut...
2.When you have an out of balance herd, the bucks will actually move less, because of the number of does,, they dont have to travel and move anywhere to find a doe to breed. Therefore there is less sign to pattern, and the bucks stay holed up in the brush with the does that are there. If there is a lower doe population, the bucks will be up on their feet more, trying to find a receptive doe to breed.
Unless you already have a nice ratio of bucks to does, 1 to 1 or 2 to 1, its only going to help by taking some does each year. Depending on your ration how many you should take, but theres not many places anymore that dont need does removed from the herds. These are just my opinions, and if Im wrong I hope someone tells us. But I hope I helped out.
08-08-2007, 07:49 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
Everyone is making good points.
Let me ask you a question........
You're in a room with20 Playboy models that haven't been with a man in a calendar year. You know there's other women in other rooms in the house....but there's NO WAY you can service all the ones you have there. No way. Are you STILL gonna take a chance and start roaming the halls.....on the CHANCE that there's WHAT?......more Playboy models?
Why would a buck go chasing does when his harem is so abundant?
2. Bucks will have more does to chase in the fall making them move longer into the season.
You're in a room with20 Playboy models that haven't been with a man in a calendar year. You know there's other women in other rooms in the house....but there's NO WAY you can service all the ones you have there. No way. Are you STILL gonna take a chance and start roaming the halls.....on the CHANCE that there's WHAT?......more Playboy models?
Why would a buck go chasing does when his harem is so abundant?
08-08-2007, 07:51 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 9,085
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
you ever read "Desert Solitare"? good book...one part he is talking about how they killed all the wolves out west so they had more mule deer to hunt. thing is, if hunters dont keep animal populations in check, nature always does. no predators on the muleys lead to and explosion of them...which leads to startvation, disease, etc etc...every piece of land has a carrying capacity. alot of our big predators, like wolve and lions etc that prey on deer are pretty much gone. if we dont keep the deer herds in check, they will starve, disease will whipe them out etc...something natural will control them...the limiting factor of deer would be food. if you think about it, we are the only predator on deer in most areas...without us hunters there will be an explosion for a while and then eventually a crash...
and your thinking about the chasing is also wrong...more does=less competition which means a less intense rut...why chase and fight and roam around when theres 20 does to 1 buck to breed??
dang look at that...i learned AND remembered stuff i learned last semester...my professor would be proud
and your thinking about the chasing is also wrong...more does=less competition which means a less intense rut...why chase and fight and roam around when theres 20 does to 1 buck to breed??
dang look at that...i learned AND remembered stuff i learned last semester...my professor would be proud