MichaelHunsucker

This is true, the more does you have, the more deer youll have, therefor the more bucks youll have.

However, wanting an overpopulation of deer is not what you want especially if your in an are where a TON of food isnt available. More deer and more bucks with just rob the other deer of the nutrition they need not letting them grow to their full potential.

Bucks take care of their bodies first, then their antlers. If their bodies arent content then the antlers will not develop to their full potential.

I guess you could look at it that way, but they way i see it is that buck will be able to find does MUCH more easily which means they will be with a doe almost all the time durring the rut weather shes beded or on the move.

With less does you increase the competition among the bucks in your area MAKING them move looking for hot does.


I can see where he might think that havesting does might not be the best thing to do, but IMO,and in the opinion of many others including wildlife biologist that study this year-roud, harvesting does IS a good thing in MOST deer herds.

Chris_H

more does = more deer = harder competition for survival = smaller and unhealthier deer = smaller bucks. If you don't harvest some does, you may get sister doe and brother buck mating and screwing up your gene pool.

MichaelHunsucker

By the way Jeff, excelent analogy! I think this will make sense to EVERY man on this site

befus

No question it will lower the number of available deer. It will increase the numbers of good bucks given time. The problem is on public lands where folks take any buck and the decrease in population may not be offset by better quality animals. In areas anywhere near 25-1 though something is way out of whack and there would be grave danger of some catastrophic event involving disease or malnutrition. I'd want a doe first rule in those areas.

bow_hunter44

This is a great debate/issue, one that I have wondered about often. How is this for a question - What is the deep population in an area is WELL below the carrying capacity of the range (the population could be considered TERRIABLE). Yet there are still several hundred doe tags issued for the area. How does that work in improving the overall population?

Jim_IV

the only thing i could see them issuing doe tags is to keep the buck:doe ratio in check.i believe stricter laws such as drawing a tag for the designated area would be appropriate

cptleo1

This discussion ticks me off to no end.

I cannot imaginethat QDM, bunnyhuggers, farmers or hunters even waste their time on this one.

DON'T FOOL WITH MOTHER NATURE - SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE IS DOING

In a perfect world with no "modern human" hunters. The natural ratio of bucks to doe is 1-1.

Nature gives the average doe 2 off spring (a 50/50 shot @ male or female)

She gets these two fawns to replace deer that have perished during the previous year ( a 50/50 shot @ male or female)

Natural predators don't give a hoot about horns they just catch what they can, Buck or doe.

They thin the herd at an even ratio.

So the healthy NATURAL way for things to go is somewhere around 1-1.

I don't see this as rocket science;I see it as common science.

I thinkeven if left un-hunted the ratio will on occasion get out of whack, at which time Mother Nature steps in with disease and starts all over again.

If we keep it simple and let Mother Nature do what she already knows, everything will be fine.

This is why I am a firm "believer in earn a buck".

Yes it is the pits when a Booner steps out and you don't have your doe yet.

Yes it is the pits if you only have room in the freezer for one deer and you have to shoot a doe.

BUT,

In the big picture of things we as hunters should want to manage the whole herd.

Our job is to balance the number of deer the land can support- This has nothing to do with horns.

If we can do thatthen can get the ratio down around 1 to 1.

Mother Nature will reward us with a bunch of big bucks - Because that’s the way it is SUPPOSED to be any way.

Don't we all dream about finding a big property to hunt, that hasn't been hunted in 20 years.

Sure we do, CUZ, we know Mother Nature will have things in control and there will be big bucks every where.

Shoot the does with equal enthusiasm - that’s what they are there for.

IMHO

It is just that easy.

Germ

That is not true, 1:1 ratio is just as bad a 1:10 IMO. Bucks would spend all their time fighting, not mating
I am a big time supporterof CSDM(common sense deer management)

NEW61375

From QDMA site

" We are told that deer populations should be similar in attributes to those that were managed by wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, and native Americans. A 1:1.3 sex ratio, bucks:does, is probably "natural," based on populations that are controlled primarily by natural predators today. There aren't many of these kinds of populations around but there are enough upon which to make educated guesses about the past. What's the Quality Management's solution to this? Moving from the traditional buck-oriented harvest system allows sex and age structures more like those of pre-Columbian times when predators and primitive man controlled populations."

Tons of good info there, for suppoerters and non supporters.
Doe harvests are important for many reasons thetwo most important in my mind are competitive breeding by bucks and more food. Deer eat an ungodly amount of food daily, (stats to follow) "Nutrient requirements and the amount of food consumed vary with age of the animal, season, and the reproductive cycle. Daily dry matter consumption averages 2% to 4% of live body weight. For adult bucks, daily consumption is greatest in spring and averages 4.4 to 6.4 pounds (2.0 to 2.9 kg) of air-dry food per day.",that ismore than 1000 lbs of food annually, so any reduction in herd only makes for improved habitat (more food)for the remainder.

nchawkeye

Johnny...Evidently your uncle doesn't raise cattle....Put 20 cattle in a 20 acre pen to fend for themselves and they won't be healthy...Put 5 in there and there is enough to go around and then some...

Now..Real world...We own 3 farms in eastern NC, heavily populated with deer, we raise corn, soybeans, peanuts, wheat...Plenty to eat, so food isn't a problem during the growing season, but come February...It is a problem...

30 years ago, I wouldn't kill a doe...One evening I watched as 48 deer moved into one of our cut corn fields...None of these deer had antlers!!! It was November, I was in college and I thought, this is crazy, I like deer meat...Two of the deer didn't leave the field (Well they did....I took them for a ride in the back of my pickup)...

At any rate...I started killing does, for several years it made no difference...And I killed a ton, even got permits and my brother's help....Frankly some years I killed 15 or so, got tired of skinning them and giving them away...About 15 years ago my nieces, nephews etc got old enough to hunt, so I had more help...We kill 40-50 deer a year...Mainly does...We now see 8-12 deer in a field, but for the past 4-5 years we are seeing more bucks, bigger bucks and bucks actually chasing does...We still have plenty of deer, but they have more and better food to choose from because there is less competition....Plus, with a better buck/doe ratio, the dominant bucks are the ones doing the breeding, so the better genes are naturally passed on...Before "any buck" could breed, because the big boys were doing all they were physically able to do...

Shoot what you want to, but I'm thinking about starting a new organization.....DoeBusters...Each week I'll show you how to kill does and at the end of each show have a great new recipe showing how to eat does!!!