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Old 08-23-2005, 05:48 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Default arrow trajectory?

This will be my first full season of bowhunting and of course I have questions. I thank you in advance for your input.

I'm shooting a Hoyt Cybertec thatwas sighted on the ground at 20 yards. My questions are:

1) If I'm 25 feet in the tree and shoot 20 yards out, where will my point of impact be versus shooting at the same target at the same distance from the ground? My guess is it will be high because shooting downward means lessgravity pull on the arrow.But, how much higher it will hit,I don't know.

2) Same tree, same height, but shooting only 10 yards out. Where would my point of impact be?

3) Same tree, same height, but pretty much straight down... point of impact?
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:18 PM   #2
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

dohcrxl: this is the way i do it and i dont worry about my stand height.

I sight my pins in on the ground at 20-25-30-35-40...then when i am putting up my stand i measure distances from the ground (ie. 23 yds from the base of the tree to the trail. Then when i go to shoot I dont need to worry about how high up my stand is I just split the difference between my 20 and 25 yd pins. This is all assuming the ground is relatively flat.....If you are hunting on the side of a mountain, then you do need to worry about how high it will be.

Any easy wayto remember how high it will shoot is that is will be the horizontal distance from you to the target. So if your are 30 yds up a tree and the deer is five yds from the base of the tree, if you use your 30 yd pin...it will be like shooting at your target from 5 yds with your 30 yd pin.

hope this helps
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:42 PM   #3
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

Your best bet would be to set up a stand at the approximate height you like to hunt from and practice the various shots you mentioned. And make sure you take some shots with all your heavy hunting clothes on. Then you can go out in the woods with confidence.
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:53 PM   #4
 
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

its all for not if you don't understand why you must bend at the waist from an elevated position. When you are up there come to full draw and anchor just like you were on the ground and aim out over your intended target. in your case you will be aiming 25 feet high level out form where you are at. Now to get on target you must hold the same anchor points. by bending at the waist you will lower the sight onto the target. Do not just drop your bow arm down to get on target your anchor points will move and no tellin where your arrow may go. you must move your whole upper body as a unit.. You can pratice on the ground by coming to anchor and aiming out straight and then bend at the waist to lower everything to a lower target. you would use your same pins as on the ground. you should really pratice from a high spot before you attempt this on a live deer.. good luck.
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Old 08-23-2005, 07:17 PM   #5
 
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: .308hunter

Any easy wayto remember how high it will shoot is that is will be the horizontal distance from you to the target. So if your are 30 yds up a tree and the deer is five yds from the base of the tree, if you use your 30 yd pin...it will be like shooting at your target from 5 yds with your 30 yd pin.
Help me understand because I just can'timagine being 30 yards (90 feet) up a tree. LOL jk... but seriously, I don't understand your system. Please elaborate a little more or give me a more realistic situation. Instead of being 30 yards up a tree let's say I'm 8 yards up and the deer is 20 yards from the base of the tree. How would I guage this particular predicament?
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Old 08-23-2005, 07:56 PM   #6
 
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bees

its all for not if you don't understand why you must bend at the waist from an elevated position.
There's an outdoor range I go to with a raisedshooting platform that's 12 feet high. I don'tgo through the motion of aiming over my target then bending my waist to get on target. But, I can always group. Are you saying that this motion is necessary to hit my target? If so why? Please forgive the novice inquiry.

Quote:
Do not just drop your bow arm down to get on target your anchor points will move and no tellin where your arrow may go. you must move your whole upper body as a unit..
I guess just reiteratingand I know it's probably all part of good shooting form but explain how this helps.

Quote:
you would use your same pins as on the ground.
Ifyou're shooting almost straight down, the gravitational pull that exists when you're shooting on the ground is near inexistent. Why should I still use the same pins?

Let me explain what I'm asking a little more - OK, when you're shooting on the ground and the arrow hits the intendedmark, it is because the pin is set at a certain position. Thatpin positioning is determined by gravity, arrow speed, and arrow weight. While that arrow is in flight for those 20 yards, all those factors effect the point of impact. If you're a good shot, you can hit your target all day long at 20 yards on the ground.

However, as soon as you elevate your shooting position, one or more of those factors change. Your arrow of course stays the same weight. Your arrow speed may increase an immeasurable amount due to the downward shooting angle. That third factor, gravity, changes. Because you're shooting at a downward angle, the arrow isn't flying horizontal to the ground which lessens the gravitational pull. Just like if you threw a baseball down a hill versus across a field. Throwing it horizontally across the field is going to be harder because there's more gravitational pull to overcome, thus you can't throw it as far as down a hill.

-or- am I seeing this all wrong? I'm just thinking about all those times I've gone squirrel hunting and have missedHIGH many times when I've shot downhill.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:10 PM   #7
 
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

You know, just trying to visualize arrow trajectories and points of impact at different heights and distances it seems to me that:

if you're 20 feet up and the deer is20yards out, your 20 yard pin will hit dead on. If that deer is only 10 yards out, you must use your 30 yard pin for it to hit dead on. And if it's at the base of the tree, you'd have to use your 40 yard pin even though the deer isn't 40 yards away. I don't know how to explain it but it's all in arrow path versus sight path... kinda like sighting in a rifle.

Please confirm or correct... thanks.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:42 PM   #8
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

dohcrxl.

Never heard that one before, I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that using your 40 yd pin on a deer 5 yds from your tree, no matter how high you are is a recipe for a certain miss.

I hold the same as if I was on level ground, I use a kisser button now to guarantee a consistent anchor point.

I am no expert just my opinion.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:47 PM   #9
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

One last word, gravity NEVER changes:

Ask any physisist to read your quote:

" That third factor, gravity, changes. Because you're shooting at a downward angle, the arrow isn't flying horizontal to the ground which lessens the gravitational pull. Just like if you threw a baseball down a hill versus across a field. Throwing it horizontally across the field is going to be harder because there's more gravitational pull to overcome, thus you can't throw it as far as down a hill."

I am sure he or she would find many errors with your logic.

If you throw a baseball off a cliff, it will go the same forward distance as if you threw it on level ground.
Gravity stops the ball at the same distance.
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Old 08-24-2005, 10:48 AM   #10
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Default RE: arrow trajectory?

dohcrxl, you've sighted in your bow on level ground, right? So, you've sighted in using the actual ground distance from you to the target. When you're up in a treestand, you are basically at the top of the vertical leg of a right triangle. The distance from the tree to the deer is the base leg of the triangle.

So, when you're ranging a deer from the treestand, you are measuring the distance of the hypoteneuse of the triangle, not the actual ground distance your tree is from the deer.

Say you're 30' up the tree (10 yards) and the deer is 10 yards from the tree. Using the ol' Pythagorean Theorum, a^2+b^2=c^2, the distance you would measure from your treestand to the deer would be a tad over 14 yards. But your ground distance is still 10 yards, so you shoot it like it's a flat 10 yards instead of a long 14.

That's one reason I don't use sights. I don't have time to break out the calculator and be doing geometry, trigonometry or advanced calculus before deciding how I want to aim.[8D]
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