anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?

02-02-2005, 03:42 PM

I must suck at ML. I have had several from flinters lymans to my new elite to TC hawkens. I hear almost every guy on here claim 5/8" groups and 1" groups, but I have yet to see anyone get these groups over and over at any range. I have been very happy with 2.5MOA for years. All I could ask for. Sure, every once i a while I would get three cutting the same hole but it sure doesn't mean its a subMOA shooter. I see dozens of people every year at the range with thier ML and yet to see anyone get a honest 5/8's" group consistently. They will get a flyer 3" away and then tell me that don't count or he moved.

I just wonder if there is anybody else on here that has more practical results I can relate with .

sabotloader · 02-02-2005, 03:51 PM

bigcountry,

This is a real typical target for me (it certainly is not 5/8" or even 1").... At my age and with the equipment I have I feel pretty good about it... I know there are shooters with guns that can do better and I always challenge myself to try - None of my ML's are TARGET guns they are field hunting rifles that we try to do our best with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...loader/458.jpg

02-02-2005, 03:59 PM

I guess I just need more experience. My 2 decades ain't enough.

dvdegeorge · 02-02-2005, 04:05 PM

Are you using a scope or shooting opened sights?

02-02-2005, 04:09 PM

Scope on my knight disc. Scope on and off on MK-85. Scope on and off on my T/C Hawken. Open sights on lymans flint. Little bit of everything over the years. Why do you ask? Do you get .5" groups at 100 yards also?

Bob1961 · 02-02-2005, 04:43 PM

here is a web site results from our postal shoot from oct....it's on a regular 3 x 5 index card with lines from corner to corner to make an X....this shoot was at 50 yds offhand and with open sights....it's not a 1" group but it is a 1 1/2" one at 50 yds offhand........bob

my card

Mark whiz · 02-02-2005, 04:53 PM

Yeah Bigcountry, such MOA groups ARE possible with muzzleloaders.......... especially when shooting off of the bench. But I figure a lot of that depends on practice and a LOT on load development as well. My little Knight USAK just refuses to shoot any of my worked up loads poorly - not matter how hard I try to screw up a shot.

For instance, last week I was shooting a postal match which specified a certain target, with 2 tigers on it - each with a bullseye the size of a Quarter. The point was to kill one of the tigers on the page in less than six shots - with 1 bullseye or 3 body hits designating a kill. These were to be shot offhand standing. Well it had gotten pretty breezy Friday as a storm was moving in and shooting these with my M1A and .22Mag didn't work that well, so with only 15min of range time left - I pulled out my trusty USAK. I fired 1 fouling shot to prep the bore and then I shot this target at 40yds:
Dead Tigers

In the same windy conditions, I shot the bottom tiger first - that shot took me by surprise, so I had to try again on the top tiger - and DANG if I didn't bullseye it too.

So, YES these guns can do it................but finding THE load has a lot to do with it.

02-02-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Yeah Bigcountry, such MOA groups ARE possible with muzzleloaders

Oh, I am sure of it. Many a time I felt I had a MOA ML, but then went back to range again. Or bought new powder. Blackpowder and Pyrodex fire off very ineffiencelty compared to smokeless. I got 100's of targets showing clover leafs. But it sure doesnt mean I have a subMOA ML.

cayugad · 02-02-2005, 07:08 PM

I have personally off a bench rest at 100 yards shots some groups well under 1". In other words all three shots touching. My trouble is the next time at the range it might shoot a 2" group or because of a flyer even worse. So yes, the small groups are possible like you said bigcountry. I would never say that I can do it each and every time I go to the range. Some days I swear I have never sighted in the rifle it shoots so bad.

I also shoot a lot. And I shoot a number of different rifles. My best rifle by far is my Thompson Center Black Diamond XR and then my Knight Wolverine. I'd hate to live on the difference between the two.

With open sights, I have never shot a 1" at 100 yards with any of my muzzleloaders, but I have shot some impressive groups with them also. I understand what your saying....

sabotloader · 02-02-2005, 08:04 PM

bigcountry,

I can not think of any way better to say what what cayugad has - it is so true for me also but I could have never gotten it into the simple words he did...

Quote:

(cayugad) - I have personally off a bench rest at 100 yards shots some groups well under 1". In other words all three shots touching. My trouble is the next time at the range it might shoot a 2" group or because of a flyer even worse. So yes, the small groups are possible like you said bigcountry. I would never say that I can do it each and every time I go to the range. Some days I swear I have never sighted in the rifle it shoots so bad.

My real problem is frustration when this occurs and the impact points run out there even farther...