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Old 10-20-2004, 08:38 AM   #1
 
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Default 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

I don't know about other areas, but I simply cannot find 4F black powder in my area to buy. Looks like I must drive out of state to buy it!!!!!!!!! Goex is made in my neck of the woods, for crying out loud, but I still can't find it here.

I am advised that only 4F will work properly in the pan of a flintlock rifle. Mine is a NEW Lyman Great Plains Rifle in .54 caliber. Very nice rifle. Now to find powder so I can at least practice!!!!!

Just purchased a "black powder grinder" on ebay in order to make 4F from 2F or 3F. Made of wood! Hope it works. All the sporting goods retailers have around here is either 777 or Pyrodex in 2F or 3F.

Kenneth Smith
Monroe, Louisiana
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:07 AM   #2
 
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

You can prime with FFFg with only a little slower lock time. Dixie's catalog for years suggested grinding FFg or FFFg with a silver spoon in a china cup. You could use a brass rod, or any non-sparking material to grind with, though. If you do go to the trouble to get some FFFFg, a one pound can will last a loooooong time. I think my last can of it has lasted two years, and I still have about 1/2 pound left.
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Old 10-20-2004, 10:44 AM   #3
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

As Charley said, use Goex FFFg to prime with. When I was getting all the stuff this year to set up my Hawkins flintlock I was shooting FFFg as the main charge and the priming charge which is very common in many places. That way they do not have to carry two different kinds of powders with them into the field. If you have a good flint you will not notice the difference all that much. Many of the large rifles and smoothbores with big pans and flints such as the Bess and some of the large other muskets use FFFg and some have even reported using FFg. One other shooter I know uses his flinter with FFFg as a priming powder all the time.

I was lucky enough to come across two pounds of the Goex FFFFg and bought both pounds of powder. Needless to say I have enough priming powder for many years to come.... Now if I can only learn this flint knapping. I have tried every procedure described on the forums and so far have not been able to do it..... Oh well live and learn.
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Old 10-20-2004, 11:43 AM   #4
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

I can buy it over the counter all day long 5 minutes from my house or 15 minutes from my house, either place has it. I only use Goex to prime with so a pound will last me quite awhile.

Cayugad, I think I sent you a PM awhile back, did you get it?
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Old 10-25-2004, 07:16 AM   #5
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

The Continental Army's manual of arms (and probably that of most European nations as well) called for priming the pan and closing the frizzen witht he musket on half-cock, with a small portion of the powder from the paper cartridge BEFORE grounding the butt and pouring the rest of the charge down the barrel, to be followed by the ball. This sequence was good for speed, but not for SAFETY!! (This practice sometimes resulted in the priming firing before the barrel was loaded - thus the expression "going off half-cocked".)

They were therefore using Musket or Fg powder for everything, including priming. I suspect that if you use FFFg for priming, it will give a lock time so fast that most people could not tell you if it was FFFg or FFFFg that was used in the pan! The ONLY immutable requirement for priming powder is that it has to be real BLACK POWDER, not a substitute!
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:13 AM   #6
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

Eldeguello is correct in that most people cannot tell the difference in speed between 3f and 4f in the pan. Sometimes, at the range I think I can notice a difference, but it could be my imagination. I have, however, never noticed a difference when hunting.

Although I usually use 4f in the pan when hunting, on rainy or very damp days I use 3f. Fffg does not seem to absorb moisture as rapidly as 4f, and thus I do not need to change my prime powder as often.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:17 AM   #7
 
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

I should have begun the topic as BLACK POWDER---Where the H*&% is it? I can't find any grade BLACK POWDER, let alone 4F around here. None...nada...zip.

A friend at the office referred me to http://www.powderinc.com/ because you can order as little as 5 lbs from them online. Way cool. Looks like that's my only alternative!

Has anyone ever used 777 or Pyrodex in a flintlock rifle? In the flashpan?[:@]

I'm about to do so.

Kenneth
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:38 AM   #8
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

With some of the newer rifles that claim to shoot pellets, they will shoot Pyrodex Pellets therefore they would shoot loose Pyrodex but to be honest, Triple Se7en and Pyrodex all have a lot higher flash point then Goex Black Powder. With a flint lock the spark and flash point are what makes the ignition fast (from all my reading).

If that is all you can get, then try it. In the mean time keep looking for some real black powder. I have used Powder Inc. and they are great to do busines with, fast, and reasonable. Get one pound of the 4f, and then the rest in what your rifle likes. I personally get it in larger amounts and of different grades for different rifles....

Using anything other then Black Powder in the flash pan I think will cause some real problems. It might work but I do not think you will be happy with the speed or results.... Get some black powder....

good luck
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Old 10-25-2004, 11:22 AM   #9
 
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

I tried flashing my pan with both 777 and Pyrodex, and some of both that I had ground with my "new" black powder grinder. I purchased the grinder thinking that could probably find some black powder in either 3F or 2F in these parts even if I couldn't find 4F, but that proved to be too optimistic.

At any rate, the flash from the 777 and Pyrodex had a delayed reaction, even when it was ground down, so that's when I tried in earnest to find someone, anyone in this area that had black powder. I even called Goex, but they only sell to distributors. Thankfully, Powder Inc. will sell in smaller amounts.
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Old 10-25-2004, 07:54 PM   #10
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Default RE: 4F Blackpowder--WTH is it?

If you or anyone you know is passing thru Pittsburgh, drop me a PM and I could hook you up in minutes. If not, I don't know what to tell you. We have some Mom&Pops that still sell it because of our late primitive season here. Otherwise you are going to pay big time for hazardous fees in the shipping, but if that is your only choice, what can you do?
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