Steam Cleaner WARNING!!
09-27-2017, 04:41 AM
#11
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
Looking back When this problem first happened i confided in Idahoron in hopes that he would have the answer? But Ron had never had this happen with any of his rifles, that REALLY had me stumped? Ron and i spent a LOT of time discussing this issue i was having, Even though Ron and i shoot different bullets, size differently, and use different powder, Our group shooting success is VERY similar, i have turned out MANY sub 1" groups with my .45, .50, and .54 LRH barrels at 50 yards, With 1-2" Groups being very common for me at 100 yards with my peep sight setups. So For me to COMPLETELY miss a 3ft by 3ft Target at 50 yards something was BAD BAD wrong!!
The 1 thing that popped up between Me and Ron's many visits over this was me using my steam cleaner through the breech end of the barrel when i clean, Ron has never done this with his rifles, AND like stated above, Ron has never had the Cold Clean Bore problems i was having. If anyone that shoots sized (slip fit) paper patched bullets, has a steam cleaner, and doubts what i am saying, PLEASE TRY THIS! You will see EXACTLY what i am talking about. It will shock you how bad the first shot is (cold clean bore shot) Unless all of my rifles are flukes?
The 1 thing that popped up between Me and Ron's many visits over this was me using my steam cleaner through the breech end of the barrel when i clean, Ron has never done this with his rifles, AND like stated above, Ron has never had the Cold Clean Bore problems i was having. If anyone that shoots sized (slip fit) paper patched bullets, has a steam cleaner, and doubts what i am saying, PLEASE TRY THIS! You will see EXACTLY what i am talking about. It will shock you how bad the first shot is (cold clean bore shot) Unless all of my rifles are flukes?
09-27-2017, 02:52 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,181
T7-2f is about 10% hotter than the Pyros and T7-3f is listed as 15% - but I also know or think I know why it didn't work for you. T7 is to hot for your paper patching probably. I mean physically to hot like probably burns right through your paper. I learned a long time ago it actually melts the bottom of a lead bullet - leaving lead all the way up the bore. Even shooting reduced 60 grain loads with a Round Ball I have to use a lubed wad or I will burn right through the patch....
From my Stainless LRH barrel I found that I needed to use 90 grains to get a really tight group with the 460's but that was 1500 fps - with a shot card under the bullet.
Now that is odd - most of us shooting caps do not get the 'crud ring' I mean I shoot an entire Rondy even using T7 and never patch once. But then again I do not have any petroleum of Teflon products in the bore. T7 will fry both and create a hard ring just under the bullet.
When I shoot T7 with shot gun primers - I do get the ring the primers are just to hot. But a Windex patch walks right through without any problems at all in fact as long as the Windex patch remain somewhat damp I just the same patch over and over.
But now with your post and my mind bringing old information - I really think I do know why you do not use T7 with soft lead and paper patch.... I really wonder though if a shot card on top of the powder and between you paper and bullet would give you better performance.
Question... with a paper patch does the bullet itself ever touch the bore or does it ride all the way out of the bore on the paper like a cloth patch?
I wonder if I can find a picture of one my 460 targets... I will look
Got it
Ballistic Sheet
From my Stainless LRH barrel I found that I needed to use 90 grains to get a really tight group with the 460's but that was 1500 fps - with a shot card under the bullet.
Now that is odd - most of us shooting caps do not get the 'crud ring' I mean I shoot an entire Rondy even using T7 and never patch once. But then again I do not have any petroleum of Teflon products in the bore. T7 will fry both and create a hard ring just under the bullet.
When I shoot T7 with shot gun primers - I do get the ring the primers are just to hot. But a Windex patch walks right through without any problems at all in fact as long as the Windex patch remain somewhat damp I just the same patch over and over.
But now with your post and my mind bringing old information - I really think I do know why you do not use T7 with soft lead and paper patch.... I really wonder though if a shot card on top of the powder and between you paper and bullet would give you better performance.
Question... with a paper patch does the bullet itself ever touch the bore or does it ride all the way out of the bore on the paper like a cloth patch?
I wonder if I can find a picture of one my 460 targets... I will look
Got it
Ballistic Sheet
I am using a wool over powder wad with a little bit of either bore butter or Hornady great plains lube on the wool just to keep them from coming out on fire.
The paper stays on the bullet all the way out the barrel. And in some cases Lewis and I have seen them hit the target with the paper still on. But that is another story.
09-27-2017, 03:06 PM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
I am using a wool over powder wad with a little bit of either bore butter or Hornady great plains lube on the wool just to keep them from coming out on fire.
The paper stays on the bullet all the way out the barrel. And in some cases Lewis and I have seen them hit the target with the paper still on. But that is another story.
The paper stays on the bullet all the way out the barrel. And in some cases Lewis and I have seen them hit the target with the paper still on. But that is another story.
Well then you really should not be getting in lead fouling at all in the bore - which is really nice and another good reason to consider paper patching!
In my case if I could paper patch the Bull Shop .503x460 + add the card underneath I could shoot it with the 90 grains of T7 and not get any lead fouling from the bullet on the way up the bore. The card stops gas leaks and totally protects the bottom of the bullet. Could really be a great combination.
Thanks for the information
09-27-2017, 05:01 PM
#14
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
Well then you really should not be getting in lead fouling at all in the bore - which is really nice and another good reason to consider paper patching!
In my case if I could paper patch the Bull Shop .503x460 + add the card underneath I could shoot it with the 90 grains of T7 and not get any lead fouling from the bullet on the way up the bore. The card stops gas leaks and totally protects the bottom of the bullet. Could really be a great combination.
Thanks for the information
In my case if I could paper patch the Bull Shop .503x460 + add the card underneath I could shoot it with the 90 grains of T7 and not get any lead fouling from the bullet on the way up the bore. The card stops gas leaks and totally protects the bottom of the bullet. Could really be a great combination.
Thanks for the information
Sabotloader, You really should give that a try!! These paper patched bullets are a lot fun! I even enjoy cutting the paper! LOL! They are Lazer accurate when you get the right combo, and ZERO leading!
09-27-2017, 06:04 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,181
Well then you really should not be getting in lead fouling at all in the bore - which is really nice and another good reason to consider paper patching!
In my case if I could paper patch the Bull Shop .503x460 + add the card underneath I could shoot it with the 90 grains of T7 and not get any lead fouling from the bullet on the way up the bore. The card stops gas leaks and totally protects the bottom of the bullet. Could really be a great combination.
Thanks for the information
In my case if I could paper patch the Bull Shop .503x460 + add the card underneath I could shoot it with the 90 grains of T7 and not get any lead fouling from the bullet on the way up the bore. The card stops gas leaks and totally protects the bottom of the bullet. Could really be a great combination.
Thanks for the information
09-27-2017, 07:50 PM
#17
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
Sabotloader, I did some thinking and I'm not so sure this would actually work that well? I know that bullshop bullet pretty well and it's awful big to take down to .492, the top band on the bullshop bullet measures .507-.508, Taking them down 15-16 thou is a LONG way down, I happen to have a .492-.493 Sizer die, I'll lube one up and send it through and see what happens? Im thinking it might Fin?
09-27-2017, 09:26 PM
#18
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 422
I just tried sizing the bullet i had made from the Bullshop bullet, i took it down to .492 and i would call it a success! Sabotloader they are ready for your testing, Put some T7 fire behind them!! There was a Slight bit of finning but it wasn't bad at all, i think these things will shoot good? I did the 2 wraps of onion skin paper, all a guy needs to do is load and shoot these. I don't know how to post Pictures on this forum so i put them on Modernmuzzleloader.
