Traditions Hawken Woodsman & Conicals - Sabots
06-01-2016, 06:39 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boncarbo,Colorado
Posts: 9,186
Traditions Hawken Woodsman & Conicals - Sabots
Posting here because conicals and sabots do not belong in a traditional muzzle loader area of a forum!
Today I decided to go out to my 50 yard range and do the most horrible thing I could think of...
Shoot modern sabots and conicals out of my Traditions Hawken Woodman .50cal Flintlock
I originally planned on keeping that stuff out of flintlock, but now that my brother in law drew his NM buck tag, I decided I wanted to have a talk with him about his hunt. After some wide eye making and " You're friggin crazy" comments, He settled down and we came to an agreement that he would use a Woodsman for his buck hunt, but only in percussion configuration and of course, he wanted either a sabot or conical.
This is just a test run to see how they'd do with the Traditions 1:48 twist barrels and so far, the sabots look promising, but conicals have a much better 1st outing.
With the bore measuring .499" at the lands, this makes it impossible to shoot a Thor conical through it which is a shame.
Powerbelts, Federal conicals and MAYBE the FPB conical will be the best choice to go with. I will have to buy some 250gr Powerbelt Aerolites and go from there as they are accurate in all of my other sidelocks.
For starters, I began with the Harvester Scorpion PT Gold in 260gr and .451" diameter, dropped into a Yellow Traditions sabot. The yellow sabots seem to load easier than the Harvester Crush rib sabots.
I also used 90 grains Goex 2fg and did not have to swab between shots. I took 5 shots and wasn't happy with the group at all. I noticed when using the yellow sabots in the past with inlines, the looser the sabot, the more powder I had to use in order to get great hunting accuracy.
Switching over to the black MMP HPH-24 sabot and the 260gr PT Gold, I was able to achieve much better accuracy! Clean bore accuracy seems to shoot exactly 3" high while the fouled bore shots became harder to reload after just 1 shot. Stiff at the muzzle but easy to go down once you got 2" past the muzzle.
I even tried some 110gr 2FG Goex loads at the end of the shoot just for giggles and it shrunk it down to an easy 2" group with the first 2 shots 3/4" from each other. A slight flinch most likely kicked that group out as that load was an eye opener.
A few recovered sabots from the range show torn up skirts on the top two sabots. The yellow with 90gr and the black with 110gr. The others were shot with 90gr 2fg Goex and are in good solid shape.
Now getting to the FUN stuff!!!
The 350gr lead version Federal BOR Loc conical/sabot hybrid!
Earlier when I shot these, I had used an inline with a 1:28 twist and a scope. At 100 yards with everything from 70 to 110gr Blackhorn209, I could only muster around a 3 - 3 1/2" group which sucks in my book for a scoped inline. Hunting accuracy? Yes, very much so, but not MY kind of accuracy.
I didn't have much confidence in these bullets, especially at how long they are. You take them out of the package and they seem like they are 2" long!
I dropped my charge down to 80gr 2fg goex and noted that they loaded SNUG in the bore, but not to the point my plastic ramrod felt weak. Good firm pressure behind them in this bore and they loaded smoothly even on a fouled bore. No swabbing was needed to maintain accuracy and easy reloading.
3 shots were taken and I FINALLY found a use for these bullets! The Woodsman 1:48 twist LOVES this huge bullet.
With the percussion version on order, I think we'll easily dial it in and have it ready 2 months before the season starts. That should give my brother in law plenty of time to learn the rifle and all the fun that goes along with it and leave me with time to make any sight changes should he need it.
And yes, I feel dirty for shooting that ammo through my flintlock, it pains me to see that kind of money being shot into sand!
A bear stole my pinto bean stuffed rear shooting bag from my 100 yard range, so I had to make due and use a very hard and uncomfortable to sleep on, memory foam pillow as a rest. It worked out extremely well, I think I will cut it into sections, duct tape it and use that when I am on the range. I am tired of buying bag rests that rip at the seams and fall apart.
Today I decided to go out to my 50 yard range and do the most horrible thing I could think of...
Shoot modern sabots and conicals out of my Traditions Hawken Woodman .50cal Flintlock
I originally planned on keeping that stuff out of flintlock, but now that my brother in law drew his NM buck tag, I decided I wanted to have a talk with him about his hunt. After some wide eye making and " You're friggin crazy" comments, He settled down and we came to an agreement that he would use a Woodsman for his buck hunt, but only in percussion configuration and of course, he wanted either a sabot or conical.
This is just a test run to see how they'd do with the Traditions 1:48 twist barrels and so far, the sabots look promising, but conicals have a much better 1st outing.
With the bore measuring .499" at the lands, this makes it impossible to shoot a Thor conical through it which is a shame.
Powerbelts, Federal conicals and MAYBE the FPB conical will be the best choice to go with. I will have to buy some 250gr Powerbelt Aerolites and go from there as they are accurate in all of my other sidelocks.
For starters, I began with the Harvester Scorpion PT Gold in 260gr and .451" diameter, dropped into a Yellow Traditions sabot. The yellow sabots seem to load easier than the Harvester Crush rib sabots.
I also used 90 grains Goex 2fg and did not have to swab between shots. I took 5 shots and wasn't happy with the group at all. I noticed when using the yellow sabots in the past with inlines, the looser the sabot, the more powder I had to use in order to get great hunting accuracy.
Switching over to the black MMP HPH-24 sabot and the 260gr PT Gold, I was able to achieve much better accuracy! Clean bore accuracy seems to shoot exactly 3" high while the fouled bore shots became harder to reload after just 1 shot. Stiff at the muzzle but easy to go down once you got 2" past the muzzle.
I even tried some 110gr 2FG Goex loads at the end of the shoot just for giggles and it shrunk it down to an easy 2" group with the first 2 shots 3/4" from each other. A slight flinch most likely kicked that group out as that load was an eye opener.
A few recovered sabots from the range show torn up skirts on the top two sabots. The yellow with 90gr and the black with 110gr. The others were shot with 90gr 2fg Goex and are in good solid shape.
Now getting to the FUN stuff!!!
The 350gr lead version Federal BOR Loc conical/sabot hybrid!
Earlier when I shot these, I had used an inline with a 1:28 twist and a scope. At 100 yards with everything from 70 to 110gr Blackhorn209, I could only muster around a 3 - 3 1/2" group which sucks in my book for a scoped inline. Hunting accuracy? Yes, very much so, but not MY kind of accuracy.
I didn't have much confidence in these bullets, especially at how long they are. You take them out of the package and they seem like they are 2" long!
I dropped my charge down to 80gr 2fg goex and noted that they loaded SNUG in the bore, but not to the point my plastic ramrod felt weak. Good firm pressure behind them in this bore and they loaded smoothly even on a fouled bore. No swabbing was needed to maintain accuracy and easy reloading.
3 shots were taken and I FINALLY found a use for these bullets! The Woodsman 1:48 twist LOVES this huge bullet.
With the percussion version on order, I think we'll easily dial it in and have it ready 2 months before the season starts. That should give my brother in law plenty of time to learn the rifle and all the fun that goes along with it and leave me with time to make any sight changes should he need it.
And yes, I feel dirty for shooting that ammo through my flintlock, it pains me to see that kind of money being shot into sand!
A bear stole my pinto bean stuffed rear shooting bag from my 100 yard range, so I had to make due and use a very hard and uncomfortable to sleep on, memory foam pillow as a rest. It worked out extremely well, I think I will cut it into sections, duct tape it and use that when I am on the range. I am tired of buying bag rests that rip at the seams and fall apart.
06-02-2016, 08:07 AM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
That's not bad shooting at all! Those conicals look pretty good. Next time out I will try some .502 diameter 450 pure lead conical bullets I sized down for my Knight rifles in my Traditions 1-48 flintlock. My Woodsman percussion was one of the first when they came out and has a 1-66 twist. Great for roundball. Bad for anything else I have tried in it.
06-04-2016, 08:26 AM
#7
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boncarbo,Colorado
Posts: 9,186
the skirt is very durable on the thor. I could resize them but thats just more $$ to spend down the road for something I get to shoot ever 2-3 years when I draw a tag.
Im just doin some experimenting with sabots and conicals for my bro in law. In the end, we'll most likely have the 250gr Aerolite loaded up for his hunt.
Im just doin some experimenting with sabots and conicals for my bro in law. In the end, we'll most likely have the 250gr Aerolite loaded up for his hunt.
06-04-2016, 08:36 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Yeah the skirts are durable but that punch pressing the bullet through the sizer will crush that skirt. No question about that. You would have to undersize the punch. But as you say, it's not something you would need regularly so it would be an unnecessary expense.
