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T/C Triumph Bone Collector Mis-fires

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T/C Triumph Bone Collector Mis-fires

Old 07-21-2015, 04:32 AM
  #11  
Giant Nontypical
 
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The swabbing is the problem, wipe the bore dry with clean dry patches before you start fire 3 209 then wipe the bore again do not put anything else in the bore do not use regular black-sub cleaners use smokeless cleaners experience has taught me that of the locally available cleaners Hoppes Elite is best. Clean ONLY after shooting is finished, then use synthetic gun oil as a perseverative.
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Old 07-21-2015, 04:50 AM
  #12  
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Problems with this rifle are rare. Another thought occurred to me. Check, and verify the firing pin bushing is tight. If it is loose the primer strikes could be light, and there may be blow by around the primer.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:11 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by mzelktag
I have a Triumph Bone Collector and I am trying to work up a load for Elk for my Wife and I am all over the place. Three times to the range now and mis-fires each time. Figured it has to be the breech plug and I cleaned it and soaked it and cleaned with a drill bit (twisting with my fingers). Went to the range, 80 gr. Blackhorn 209. Fed. Bore Lock, Winchester 209 Shotgun Primer. Pow, nice shot. Remove breech plug, look thru hole is clear, pre-soaked patch, two dry patches, install breech plug.

Loaded as before, Pow, 1-1/4 in from first shot at 100 yds. Same routine as above, and reloaded.

Misfire. Bullet in the grass 40 yds in front of me. Re-do above routine. Same result.

Switch to Pyrodex. Fired every time but I'm not grouping that well. I hear how awesome Blackhorn 209 is and I love it when it works.

What am I doing wrong? Please advise. Seems like problem has to be breech plug fouling. New gun, just broke the seal on the 209 powder.
Bullet landing 40 yards in front of you with Blackhorn could mean a combination of loose bullet and powder not compacted enough. How loose does that Federal lock-bullet slide down your bore? Blackhorn likes snug/tight bullets. The misfire could even indicate either a defective plug or worn-out breechplug. How many shots have gone thru that Bone Collector bore and original breechplug?

I would buy another breechplug - then buy a tighter-fitting sabot/bullet to try - then compact that bullet firmly onto the powder. That requires a t-handle type accessory at the end of your ramrod. Lastly, make sure that bore and plug are dry when loading your next shot. You can dry-swab Blackhorn. Just obstain from liquid until you get this problem resolved, then only use a wet patch with Blackhorn at the end of your range visit. Shooters often comment here that they go an entire range visit without wet-swabbing Blackhorn.

Last edited by Triple Se7en; 07-21-2015 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:40 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Triple Se7en
.....How loose does that Federal lock-bullet slide down your bore?.....
Apparently you don't understand how the bullet works.













That bullet will naturally go easily down the bore; it was designed to. The photo shows the plastic shoved up the bullet by the ignition. This tightens the seal, and the bullet goes up the barrel much tighter than it went down. The fired bullet in the photo was pushed by only 50g of Blackhorn, and was traveling at over 1100 fps 25 yard away.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:41 AM
  #15  
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They are Winchester 209 Shotgun primers. They come out shiny so I don't have any blowback.

Breech plug hole: The main channel hole is not 1/8". When I clean with a drill, I am starting with 5/64" (.079) finish with a 3/32 (0.093"). It is dirty and takes some effort to twist with my fingers particularly when most of the way in near the ignition hole where there is some carbon.

7/64"(0.109") will not start. It is bigger than the original hole. The original passage hole is slightly larger than the 3/32 but not very much maybe a no. 40 drill (0.098") but I don't have a numbered drill set just a good fractional set. It is considerably smaller than 1/8"(0.125")

I don't have a wire gauge set or drills small enough to determine the size of the smaller ignition hole but I held the plug up to the light each shot and it looks clear.

Also, I am seating the bullet on the powder firmly and trying to be consistent.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:53 AM
  #16  
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The channel is 1/8", yes it is. The carbon build is so hard, you think it is steel; it isn't. A 1/8" drill is what you should finish your cleaning with. After the 3/32" drill use a 7/64" drill. Work your way through the carbon in steps. Me i would put the drill into a motor if i had to, and be very careful no to drill through the flash hole.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:58 AM
  #17  
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Just as an experiment try a tighter fitting bullet. Even if it's one you don't want to hunt with.

The Fed bullet will move the sleeve for a tighter fit when fired, but it has to fire first.

The Thor bullet is the same way. It expands when fired. I had some loose fitting Thor bullets that wouldn't fire off BH 209. The primer would fire, and just push out the bullet 10ft. Using a tighter fitting Thor worked fine.

Just to eliminate the bullet being a problem. Use something tighter, and do everything else the same except swabbing.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:09 AM
  #18  
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Bullet is firm in barrel but with the bore lock bullet that is only real contact with that base ring until firing. We can't use sabots. Wife has a Colorado Muzzleloader Bull tag. Loose powder, no sabots, iron sights. She can shoot. I just got to get this figured out.

Rifle I borrowed from friend is new. Only 60-70 rounds thru it by me. Shot good groups with it with Pyrodex and Powerbelts but everyone tells me powerbelts are a poor choice for Elk. I'm really hoping I can get this done with BH209 and Federal Bore Lock bullets.

The swabbing issue is and easy fix if I can stick with the BH209. I can try and find some hotter primers. I think the breech plug is an issue too.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:30 AM
  #19  
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I made a point of saying try a bullet you won't be hunting with. You want to eliminate the problem of a loose bullet. Try a sabot to see if the misfires stop. If they do you know the problem is the Fed bullets. Then you can look for another conical.

I'm well aware of the Colorado laws.


btw Personally, I don't think the Fed bullet is a good choice for elk.

Last edited by Muley Hunter; 07-21-2015 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:35 AM
  #20  
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As Ron told you, that BP is most definitely 1/8 channeled. We aren't talking about the flash hole itself. There is a difference. Pictured here

I'm not 100% sure on this, but every TC breech plug I have experienced (209 primer types) have a 1/8 flash channel. With 60-70 shots through it, even if only 20% of those shots were with BH, that flash channel is probably crusted up pretty hard. Like Ron said, start with something smaller and end up with the 1/8. But do NOT use a motor (Dangit Ron not all are machinists) Ron works on and modifies breech plugs a lot and gets a bit carried away in his advise sometimes without considering the mechanical knowledge of some may not be on par with his own Just use good sharp bits BY HAND and it will eventually clean up. Soak the Breech Plug in some good solvent over night. That will help loosen things up.

Edit to add: And whoever told you Powerjunks wern't a good option for Elk was NOT misleading you. Hell they aren't a good option for whitetail! Some paper shooters like them because they are definitely accurate out of a lot of rifles but their terminal performance is "lacking" to put it nicely. To put it honestly they suck wind!

Last edited by super_hunt54; 07-21-2015 at 06:40 AM.
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