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Old 06-30-2015, 05:19 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by super_hunt54
The owner of the property wants to "compete" with the "Golden Triangle" counties over on the west side. I told him he would need to get up about 600 more acres to the same quality we have on the current properties to even imagine it.
I am having a problem with some of the guys in our hunt club who want to hunt trophy bucks. I try to tell them we need a lot more contengious property then we have now, which is about a little over 2000 acres.

During the rut, bucks will travel up to and beyond one and a half miles to complete the rut. Some even say the numbers may even be higher. Sometimes we have too many studies.
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:21 AM
  #22  
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rafsob, 2000 acres, if properly managed, will hold a good many quality deer. The key, at least what I have found over the years, is creating excellent bedding cover, food, and not over pressuring. To put it simply, give them a home they want to stay at. Those three properties I manage hold approximately 90 deer. Of course they roam some to neighboring properties as it is in their nature but all in all they stick around. They have good food supplied by several acres of food plots, as well as natural browse, great water source and several heavily covered bedding spots. With the Buck to Doe ratio that we have finally gotten down to 2 doe per buck, they don't have a whole hell of a lot of reason to roam out during rut. Most all the "Big Boys" have girlfriends without much competition. Roaming bucks from neighboring properties get swiftly jumped and turned away from the area by the dominants. The ones that don't, believe me, deserve to stay! The younger bucks that cant compete with the dominants get ran off to breed elsewhere which helps establish a larger base. Good for us and good for the neighboring properties. I know for a fact that 2 of the big bucks taken in Northern Kentucky last year came from our line. My son has the Grandfather of them on his wall.
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:43 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by rafsob
I am having a problem with some of the guys in our hunt club who want to hunt trophy bucks. I try to tell them we need a lot more contengious property then we have now, which is about a little over 2000 acres.

During the rut, bucks will travel up to and beyond one and a half miles to complete the rut. Some even say the numbers may even be higher. Sometimes we have too many studies.
We have a club here, composed of basically rich folks. I think 19 members. 26,000 acres, 40+ square miles. They've been doing work on that property for decades, and still no large bucks.

http://www.drdeer.com/pages/about/wh...r/wayne-sitton

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/28/us...bovine-tb.html

It IS NOT completely fenced....
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:00 AM
  #24  
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:29 AM
  #25  
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Barnes, One thing I did forget to mention, you have to START with good stock. We already had some pretty nice bucks on these properties but the age old problem of not letting the decent bucks walk to procreate kept from some really excellent bucks being seen. While yes seeing a 3.5 year old deer sporting a 135" class rack is a tempting trophy for most hunters, that deer in 2 years will more than likely have a 150-160" bone crown as well as able to make some more brutes.

I know about that club you spoke of and you are correct, they are a bunch of rich a-holes without a clue. And I know they tend to lean to the "If it's got bone it's a trophy" attitude. I've seen a LOT of Michigan hunters follow that attitude. It's like that in most states anymore I'm sad to say. Granted I don't care for trophy hunting anymore myself but I am still VERY selective of the meat deer I drop. Older, non milking Doe, Older, past their prime Bucks, or genetic screwups like 3.5 year old fork horns and such. But it all comes back to the beginning, let the nice younger bucks with promise walk and take out the older bucks or the genetic misfires. Get your buck to doe ratio where it should be and the herd to a manageable number that the property can easily support. In all reality, we have several too many deer for that 600 acres total if we relied ONLY on what nature provides but we do keep the food plots growing healthy providing additional food.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:55 AM
  #26  
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One thing I learned about the whitetails in northern MI, is that taking out the older does isn't the best thing. With hard cold winters, those older does with experience teach the younger deer how to survive it. MI whitetail hunting has its own unique hunters and the different ways many of them think and, there are a ton of whitetail hunters in MI. The farms in MI have all been broken up and sold off in small parcels. That in itself creates a problem between hunters/property owners.
Before I retired, we had 240 acres down below (southern MI). It was quite unique, as the entire deer population to the south, had to travel through ours to head to a larger 2x4 mile section with cover. My first day hunting it, I had exactly 111 deer come by me going into the section. Of the 111 that passed, only one (1) was a VISABLE antlered buck.
The MI-DNR started giving doe tags out at a rate of one per day, starting in early Sept through the end of Dec. That's when the "great reduction" started in S. MI and I did my share. I NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER, seen a winter die off/kill there. Does remained very healthy with more browse available and all the crops they could stand to eat. With all those very healthy does, still twins were the norm and still are according to the now owner.
I had a buddy that hunted with me and a couple of his boys, all of us shooting muzzleloaders. The decision was made (voluntarily) to harvest 8pts or more, we also took out more of the younger does. It wasn't long before some of the neighbors asked me what the hell we were doing, as they were seeing more and a little larger antlered bucks. Come to find out, they had started the same practice 3 years after we started. I'm of the understanding there's 5,000 adjoining acres following the same practice today.

So in some areas, its my belief and certainly the belief of many others, that letting some of the older mature does go, is actually the best thing.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:45 AM
  #27  
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Older and Mature is one thing, Too old and not producing is another. We have more than enough mature "wise" Does on the properties. And while yes we get some pretty rough winters here in Southern Illinois, it's really nowhere near as rough as it is in Michigan USUALLY that is. I think this past winter was about freaking equal. Nasty year!

While that 8 or better rule is okay, maybe you would find it even better if you would all try to learn to judge age in the field. Dropping an 8 point 3.5 year old kind of circumvents the entire process don't you think? If you want to see more trophy bucks, then you have to let them grow up and reproduce. In some places I know that 3.5 year old bucks are about as old as they get because people see them and drop them. Then they complain about not seeing any quality racks. It's a pretty rough situation to get around until you can either get people on surrounding properties to try to do better or have a large enough property of your own that you can simply close off to everyone else that won't adhere to your rules.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:25 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by super_hunt54
Older and Mature is one thing, Too old and not producing is another. We have more than enough mature "wise" Does on the properties. And while yes we get some pretty rough winters here in Southern Illinois, it's really nowhere near as rough as it is in Michigan USUALLY that is. I think this past winter was about freaking equal. Nasty year!

While that 8 or better rule is okay, maybe you would find it even better if you would all try to learn to judge age in the field. Dropping an 8 point 3.5 year old kind of circumvents the entire process don't you think? If you want to see more trophy bucks, then you have to let them grow up and reproduce. In some places I know that 3.5 year old bucks are about as old as they get because people see them and drop them. Then they complain about not seeing any quality racks. It's a pretty rough situation to get around until you can either get people on surrounding properties to try to do better or have a large enough property of your own that you can simply close off to everyone else that won't adhere to your rules.
They had frost that went over 12' deep under a couple roads up here and 1/2 again under the "normal" frost line every place else. We didn't get the insulating snow, yet the bitter cold. Ice in our 8,850 acre lake was 42" thick! You think you had a bad winter?

I have enough trophies hanging on the wall and all over the floor. Wife says "NO MORE!" I've taken so many deer, I really don't care about antlers any more, or rather that much. I'll take a good 1.5yo doe for meat any day.

One of the problems in MI is, there's over 700,000 hunters hitting the woods and that's with dwindling hunters. Mind sets are changing, but slow and that's ok. Deer are totally different in the different areas of this state. The northern lower has much smaller deer and smaller antlered bucks, than the southern areas. The U.P. is a disaster area, with few deer now. Multiple hard winters and those X0X0X wolves that about wiped them out. Used to be some dandy bucks taken in the U.P. Soil type, terrain, food sources play a huge difference in MI deer in the different regions. NEL has a problem with bTB. MI had a couple bad years for EHD. Now CWD has been found in the south central area.

My personal opinion is that trophy hunting of antlers is a bad thing for whitetail hunting in general. Way to much emphasis is being placed on antler size, instead of the hunt itself. I see way to many hunters arguing and fighting each other, over antler size and age. Actually it makes me sick the arguing and bickering taking place now days over trophies. If I wanted a large set of antlers, I'd head back to Saskatchewan again.
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Old 06-30-2015, 01:17 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by BarnesAddict
If I wanted a large set of antlers, I'd head back to Saskatchewan again.
LOL Funny how a 140" rack looks so tiny on one of those Big Bruiser Saska's aint it!
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