Weight or volume measure?
11-19-2014, 04:37 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
....I've always shot it by weight, using the conversion provided by Western (.7). Shooting by weight, I've never experienced any differences from one container to another of my POI. My normal charge from production rifles was 75grs by weight, which using the conversion number provided by Western equals 107.1grs volume.....
11-19-2014, 06:17 PM
#22
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 45
[QUOTE=Muley Hunter;4170744]
Have you ever been real careful with a volume measure, and checked to see how close they were to each other on a scale? I have, and they were close enough to not matter. Especially, for hunting.
Competition target shooting would be different. Shooting a 1/2" group would be better than a 3/4" group. It sure wouldn't matter for hunting.
QUOTE]I have seen huge change from volume to weight measure. (20 Gr weight) This gave me about 2" at the bench at 100 yards.(I know after 100's of round's dialing up the Muzzie with different bullets. I am an accuracy junkie and if bench is 2", my field is prob closer to 3-4". My muzzie is sub moa at 100yards and for me that is what I like.
I love the Scorpion PT300Gr. Let me know how you like it. Took some powder dialing to optimize it but 73-75Gr (weight)is perfect for me.
Have you ever been real careful with a volume measure, and checked to see how close they were to each other on a scale? I have, and they were close enough to not matter. Especially, for hunting.
Competition target shooting would be different. Shooting a 1/2" group would be better than a 3/4" group. It sure wouldn't matter for hunting.
QUOTE]I have seen huge change from volume to weight measure. (20 Gr weight) This gave me about 2" at the bench at 100 yards.(I know after 100's of round's dialing up the Muzzie with different bullets. I am an accuracy junkie and if bench is 2", my field is prob closer to 3-4". My muzzie is sub moa at 100yards and for me that is what I like.
When Blackhorn started to sell their volume tubes I bought a package of 24 and until last year I shot my Knight's by volume(110 gr). Mid season last year I bought a powder scale and learned that load of 110 gr. by Vol in those tubes weighed 84 to 85gr. This year I measure by vol first, then weigh each load for more consistency. Any powder over 77 gr goes back in the box. So far on the range, my groups have been very consistent. I'll get a chance to try that load in the field next week. Don't expect much change. I have switched from Hornady's SST 300 gr load, with EZ Load sabots to Harvesters 300 gr Scorpion PT Gold with Black Crush Rib sabots I'll let you know how they perform if I get a shot at anything.
11-20-2014, 06:03 AM
#23
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
See, there's a difference between you and I. I don't care about centerfire rifles. I'd rather do it with a muzz. And yes, I've been real careful with a volume measure and then used a scale. It saved my rear end doing that, when one volume measure measured 30grs heavier than it should have. In other words, I would have thought I was shooting 150grs, but in reality I'd have been shooting 180grs.
Muley, nobody's puffing out their chest. What's so hard to understand, that many people are NOT doing what you do "at my distance". If you're not striving to do better tomorrow than you did today, then that's "your normal", just don't try to make it everyone elses. Shooters are taking muzzleloaders to levels way above your head and also mine. So just because you're shooting consistent groups at your distance, doesn't mean that others can't have a different distance. If you're satisfied with RW "point blank range" with your muzz, that's outstanding and I'm certainly very happy for you. But....... remember there are different shooters, striving for many different things than what satisfies just you.
Muley, nobody's puffing out their chest. What's so hard to understand, that many people are NOT doing what you do "at my distance". If you're not striving to do better tomorrow than you did today, then that's "your normal", just don't try to make it everyone elses. Shooters are taking muzzleloaders to levels way above your head and also mine. So just because you're shooting consistent groups at your distance, doesn't mean that others can't have a different distance. If you're satisfied with RW "point blank range" with your muzz, that's outstanding and I'm certainly very happy for you. But....... remember there are different shooters, striving for many different things than what satisfies just you.
As for the weighing issues. You missed the point there too. If 70gr of BH is suppose to be 100gr by volume. I'm not saying that if I measure 100gr of BH by volume that it will weigh exactly 70gr. I'm saying if you carefully measure by volume it will be very close on a scale from load to load. It doesn't really matter if it's 69gr or 71gr on a scale. As long as it weighs 69gr or 71gr everytime. That will give you consistent groups. It will be the load that your gun likes from testing at the range. There's is zero danger in the loads we use normally. It's only when you want to shoot 300-400 yds that a load can get dangerous.
As I said. If I wanted to shoot game at 300-400 yds i'd use a .270, and have 1/3 the recoil, and way less expense.
As i've said before. If guys continue to push muzzleloaders out to 300+yds. Muzzleloader seasons will go away. We get special seasons now, because muzzleloaders are suppose to be primitive weapons that can't compete with CF guns. If guys like you want to keep pushing muzzleloaders you'll soon be shooting them in rifle seasons.
11-20-2014, 06:27 AM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
What kind of comeback was that? Sort of a ....no you are. I said the same thing to you on your long shots. Not everybody wants to do that, and i'm positive my ranges are the majority of muzzy hunters.
As for the weighing issues. You missed the point there too. If 70gr of BH is suppose to be 100gr by volume. I'm not saying that if I measure 100gr of BH by volume that it will weigh exactly 70gr. I'm saying if you carefully measure by volume it will be very close on a scale from load to load. It doesn't really matter if it's 69gr or 71gr on a scale. As long as it weighs 69gr or 71gr everytime. That will give you consistent groups. It will be the load that your gun likes from testing at the range. There's is zero danger in the loads we use normally. It's only when you want to shoot 300-400 yds that a load can get dangerous.
As I said. If I wanted to shoot game at 300-400 yds i'd use a .270, and have 1/3 the recoil, and way less expense.
As i've said before. If guys continue to push muzzleloaders out to 300+yds. Muzzleloader seasons will go away. We get special seasons now, because muzzleloaders are suppose to be primitive weapons that can't compete with CF guns. If guys like you want to keep pushing muzzleloaders you'll soon be shooting them in rifle seasons.
As for the weighing issues. You missed the point there too. If 70gr of BH is suppose to be 100gr by volume. I'm not saying that if I measure 100gr of BH by volume that it will weigh exactly 70gr. I'm saying if you carefully measure by volume it will be very close on a scale from load to load. It doesn't really matter if it's 69gr or 71gr on a scale. As long as it weighs 69gr or 71gr everytime. That will give you consistent groups. It will be the load that your gun likes from testing at the range. There's is zero danger in the loads we use normally. It's only when you want to shoot 300-400 yds that a load can get dangerous.
As I said. If I wanted to shoot game at 300-400 yds i'd use a .270, and have 1/3 the recoil, and way less expense.
As i've said before. If guys continue to push muzzleloaders out to 300+yds. Muzzleloader seasons will go away. We get special seasons now, because muzzleloaders are suppose to be primitive weapons that can't compete with CF guns. If guys like you want to keep pushing muzzleloaders you'll soon be shooting them in rifle seasons.
11-20-2014, 06:30 AM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
I have a collection of powder measures I have collected over the last 60 years no two measure the same volume the only one that is real close when checked by weight is the U-view now that's all I use and it measures Blackhorn better than any other powder as all the grains are the same size and shape the other powders like Pyrodex and black have what is known as fines which both change the weight to volume.
With less than a grain average difference I see no benefit in my weighting Blackhorn, but somebody with a different procedure or an open top measure might need to especially if their measure is one of the ones that is way off.
With less than a grain average difference I see no benefit in my weighting Blackhorn, but somebody with a different procedure or an open top measure might need to especially if their measure is one of the ones that is way off.
11-20-2014, 06:34 AM
#27
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I have a collection of powder measures I have collected over the last 60 years no two measure the same volume the only one that is real close when checked by weight is the U-view now that's all I use and it measures Blackhorn better than any other powder as all the grains are the same size and shape the other powders like Pyrodex and black have what is known as fines which both change the weight to volume.
With less than a grain average difference I see no benefit in my weighting Blackhorn, but somebody with a different procedure or an open top measure might need to especially if their measure is one of the ones that is way off.
With less than a grain average difference I see no benefit in my weighting Blackhorn, but somebody with a different procedure or an open top measure might need to especially if their measure is one of the ones that is way off.
11-20-2014, 06:49 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
Funny how the guy that won at Friendship in the last shoot, couldn't hit the target until he increased his charge by only 5grs.... of BLACK.
Seems many have some kind of grudge against shooters shooting long range and attempting to be more accurate tomorrow than they were today.
I'm not worried one single bit about muzzleloaders that have longer ranges over another and a state making people hunt in rifle zones. Good grief????? Do some reading about what other states are now doing. Many states are now allowing straight walled CF cartridges of a maximum and minimum length in shotgun ONLY zones. These same CF cartridges of minimum lengths of 1.6" and maximum lengths of 1.8" are achieving 2,900fps, with some hitting 3,000fps. And someone is worried about a muzzleloader shooting 2,300fps??????? Check out the rifle, load and bullet that the shooter who won the Friendship match shot AT 500 YARDS. If I remember correctly, his muzzle velocity was just over 1,700fps. There are shotguns with rifled barrels that shoot MOA at 200yds.
Seems many have some kind of grudge against shooters shooting long range and attempting to be more accurate tomorrow than they were today.
I'm not worried one single bit about muzzleloaders that have longer ranges over another and a state making people hunt in rifle zones. Good grief????? Do some reading about what other states are now doing. Many states are now allowing straight walled CF cartridges of a maximum and minimum length in shotgun ONLY zones. These same CF cartridges of minimum lengths of 1.6" and maximum lengths of 1.8" are achieving 2,900fps, with some hitting 3,000fps. And someone is worried about a muzzleloader shooting 2,300fps??????? Check out the rifle, load and bullet that the shooter who won the Friendship match shot AT 500 YARDS. If I remember correctly, his muzzle velocity was just over 1,700fps. There are shotguns with rifled barrels that shoot MOA at 200yds.
11-20-2014, 07:17 AM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
You still miss the point. He can easily increase his load by 5gr with a volume measure too. I guarantee you if I weighed my volume loads they would be anywhere near 5gr difference. I'd be surprised if they were more than 1gr.
Are we talking about competitive target shooting now? I thought we were talking about hunting loads?
I'll give you this. If I was shooting in competition i'd weigh the loads. I've competed in competitions over the years, and was always picky about small details. That's part of the fun. I just find it unnecessary for hunting loads shot at average distances that hunters mostly use.
Are we talking about competitive target shooting now? I thought we were talking about hunting loads?
I'll give you this. If I was shooting in competition i'd weigh the loads. I've competed in competitions over the years, and was always picky about small details. That's part of the fun. I just find it unnecessary for hunting loads shot at average distances that hunters mostly use.
11-20-2014, 07:19 AM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Or my state where the ML season is the LAST.
We do offer restricted hunts by lottery in the BEST areas before rifle season. Those areas are sidelock only and no scopes. The traditionalist got the prime areas/time and they always cry for more. Just like a liberal is never happy until everyone is forced to do it THEIR way.
I highly doubt that highend inlines will ever impact the ML season in my state. Now you can even use a CF pistol and i don't care one bit. It does not effect me what someone else chooses to shoot. The selfish traditionalist just don't want to share the woods with anyone that is not like minded.
Plain and simple.
We do offer restricted hunts by lottery in the BEST areas before rifle season. Those areas are sidelock only and no scopes. The traditionalist got the prime areas/time and they always cry for more. Just like a liberal is never happy until everyone is forced to do it THEIR way.
I highly doubt that highend inlines will ever impact the ML season in my state. Now you can even use a CF pistol and i don't care one bit. It does not effect me what someone else chooses to shoot. The selfish traditionalist just don't want to share the woods with anyone that is not like minded.
Plain and simple.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 11-20-2014 at 07:21 AM.