ronlaughlin

Well.. it seems you answered your own question.

buckfever37

Those are jacked up! Can I ask what primers were those? I have never once went down range to look at my sabots. How many grains in volume did you use when that happened? I planned on going with 90 grains or a hair less.

sabotloader

Do not worry about the conditions of the sabots in the picture, by the time the sabots reach this condition the bullet has long ago left the sabot.

At one time I was doing a lot of experimenting with BH in open breech Knights, both MK-85's and Big Horn's. I even think I one time I had a Wolverine in the mix.

I was successful at getting them all to ignite BH just fine and even get decent accuracy but the breech are results were something I really never liked, mainly out of safety concerns. One thing that does not get mentioned a lot is that these rifle were never designed to shoot shot gun primers. The were for all intents and purposes a inline sidehammer designed to shoot percussion caps. Which they do very well. The thought of shooting a more powerful (hotter) ignition source really consumed a lot of us including myself. It was the really popular thing to do shoot 209's. So Knight like many other companies built and offered conversion kits to allow the public to be happy. Did shooting 209's really improve anything, in my mind today - no- not really. Shooting caps does take more precautions while hunting than does shooting 209's. You have to be keenly aware of moisture.

So in your case and mine shooting a 209 in a 'open' breech was the thing to do, aside from the fact if you want to shoot BH you have to shoot 209's unless you choose to duplex.

Anyway in my experimentation I was using any and every primer I had to develop something that would work well for me. So the primers you see in the picture. The front 3 are Winchester T7 pimers, which ignited BH just fine with the new vented plug. Then the 3 top left with Remington 209-4 primers, and the single on the top right was CCI-209 primer, not a magnum primer.

Your choice of 90 grains of BH should be in most cases just fine dependent on the weight of the projectile. It is the 'most cases' portion that bothers me.

It would continue to be suggestion today... with an open breech muzzleloader use percussion caps and even then there is a slight risk to people standing to the side of the rifle.

Today in my MK's/Big Horn I shoot 110 grains T7-3f, ignited with a #11 MAG style cap. They shoot great and work very well and are extremely accurate.

This is a composite picture of an outing with an MK-85 shooting two different projectiles and using #11 caps.

Grouse45

Sabotloader,
In my opinion when testing those new plugs, the safest by far was with a red plastic jacket. Number 11 and bare 209 primer is not for me in open breech guns. I think the way he is doing it is the best all the way around. I'm looking for the video clips I made of all three ignition types in the Wolverine. You might really be surprised at what you see flying.

buckfever37

I'm wishing I didn't throw away all my primers from my last shoot. For some reason I kept 2 and they are fine. I decided to call western powders today. The guy I talked to said only breech plug that's compatible is the 209 bare plug. But he said he wouldn't recommend using my rifle with BH. He also felt knights vented plug would give me blowback. So right now I'm almost ready to buy a new gun and trade in my knight. I have considered getting triple 7 loose powder but I don't see how I could shoot a pound of it. Also pretty sure its shelf life isn't very long. I have used pellets the following season but always wondered if its not as potent. So far I'm leaning towards a new cva optima or maybe the accura.

sabotloader

I know what you are talking about... but when using percussion caps with a true percussion hammer, not a 209 hammer, it will eliminate and contain most of the cap inside the cavity in the hammer.

When Tony Knight designed the original hammer that was a point of emphasis.

sabotloader

That is a myth IF you store the powder correctly and by that I mean put the lid back on tight in storage. when I open a bottle, I pull the air tight seal off the top of the bottle, flip it over and install it back in the lid upside down. Then I always tighten the lid to compress the seal to air tight.

Right now I am shooting a bottle of T7 that was made in 2009. For many years now I have been purchasing bottles of T7 on close out at places like WalMart or local Sporting Goods stores. I usually buy 10/12 bottles per year. I really never plan on catching up with myself.

When the bottle is sealed it will not soak up moisture. With pellets in an open top box the only way you can keep them fresh is to put them ins something air-tight to store.

ronlaughlin

Ironically.. in order to successfully shoot Blackhorn powder in either of those rifles, you will need to purchase an additional breech plug. Yup, the breech plug sold with them rifle is unreliable igniting Blackhorn. Funny.. you need to shell out more dinero for a plug that will work. Hmm.. However, in the long run, you will end up with a better plug, if you modify the one supplied.

flounder33

Actually Mike the original hammer did a very poor job of containig the percussion cap. It has a very shallow cavity. I always use one of the newer hammers for that reason. Like you, I prefer not to use the 209 hammer for caps, I think the pointy part makes the caps disintegrate.



The original hammer is the top one the revised hammer is on the bottom.

Art

Gm54-120

The one i sold looked like this.


I wish i would have kept that MK.