Long story short, my .45 Hawken sold. That part is good. It almost didn't thought. As I was playing around with it one evening, it occurred to me that I've never shot a traditional. It also seems to me that for as easily as the barrel came out of the stock, putting the breech end in a bucket of hot water and pumping it through the barrel would clean it real easily. There's not really anything else to clean, except occasionally the lock. So then I got to thinking about how a GM LRH barrel on that could be a fun gun to shoot. But then somebody bought it so that idea went out the window.
Here's the thing - I still keep thinking about it. I'm trying to figure out where I want to go with muzzleloading. I like my Pro Hunter a lot, but in some ways it doesn't appeal to me as much as it used to. I feel like I have limited range time right now and over the course of a year I spend more time cleaning than I do shooting. It seems like it's almost gotten too complicated. The idea of a traditional and some Pyrodex is growing on me.
Here's my problem. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I want in a gun, but I'm not sure I can find it.
-I plan to shoot primarily saboted bullets, but would also like to venture into conicals. I'm thinking a GM LRH barrel here.
-I have to hunt with open sights (I'm thinking Williams FP's here) but want to keep it scoped for practice and load development.
-I would like a stock with a little bit higher comb/cheek piece than the Hawken had to make it comfortable, and
-I would like to put a recoil pad on it rather than the brass plate.
- Last I would like a single trigger rather than a double.
- And I want all of this to be minute of deer at 200 or so yards.
So my questions are, Is there a gun out there there that fits this or is close to it already?
Am I right about a sidelock being as fast or faster to clean than most inlines?
Is this even possible at all, ie. can I even put one together to make this happen? I think I would almost rather put one together than buy a pre-made factory gun.
I know this ruins the "traditional" aspect in most senses of the word, but honestly I don't care about that part. I want to build a gun that is exactly how I want it and fits what I'm looking for.
Most of the people here are a lot smarter than I am. Is this a dumb list or not?
With the right load you can easily shoot 200 yards with a traditional sidelock. My 200 yard load in a deer creek northwest rifle.45 was 80gr T7 3F and a 225gr Powerbelt. That was very flat shooting! I forget how it grouped at 200 yards but i remember it being pretty darn good for what it was.
Double triggers are SUPER Nice to have. You can get a single trigger to break pretty decent on a cva or traditions as the locks are easy to tune with a set screw but the single triggers i find to be more of a pain.
Maybe a TC Renegade "Idahoron would be best to talk on this subject" and a GM .45 Or .50cal 1:28 barrel.
I saw that for sale & wondered why?
I'll bet if you'd put a few rounds down the barrel that you would have hung on to it!
I don't personally know about 200 yds w/ iron sights-even at 100 yds the kill zone looks pretty small.
1:48 twist should handle your choice of projectiles well.
The comb is a personal thing; as for the buttplate, these rifles don't have as much recoil as you might think.
Cleaning is very easy w/ soap & hot water, but the breechplug is not removed for this or really at all.
Though the .45 may have been a good intro, IMO .50 seems better suited to your objectives.
Sorry I should have clarified - 100 yards or so is my limit with iron sights. But I also keep hearing MN will soon allow scopes, so I would like to be ready. There's a couple places I hunt that will allow shots out to 200 or a little more.
I was under the impression the 1-48" twist was best for heavy conicals, but not as good for lighter saboted rounds. As I said before, I don't know, just how I had understood it to work.
one of my TCs, 1:48, came w/ what may actually be home-cast bullets and green sabots which shot very well.
Other than powerbelts, this was my only experience w/ sabots & bullets as I prefer PRB.
I've similarly limited experience w/ conicals, mostly buffalo bullets out of a buddy's CVA but do remember they had quite a kick to them!
Simply because you want to shoot sabots or conicals... then the Green Mountain LRH 1-28 twist barrel would be good for you. The barrel comes in 1 inch on the flats and 15/16th on the flats. The smaller will fit into a T/C Hawkins Stock, Lyman Trade Rifle (with a little adjustment to the hooked breech), the Renegade, and a few other rifles. They would be an easy open sight sabot shooting rifle. 200 yards with the right sight modifications might be possible if your a good shot, and willing to practice.
As for the stock problem, they sell pads you can add that lift you up on the rifle. And this makes it easier to shoot for some and also takes out recoil.
Another rifle you might want to keep an eye open for in the traditional field is the T/C Black Mountain Magnum. It is a true 150 grain capable rifle, it has a composite stock, single (excellent I might add)) trigger, musket cap ignition because it can shoot pellets if you want, and a 1-28 twist. Its the same barrel you would find on an Omega. So if you trust an Omega to shoot 100 yards with open sights, this might be the rifle for you. I have one and it is a sweet shooter.
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I'll give you my opinion. You really sound like the only part of a traditional gun you like is the cleaning. Everything else you want says inline.
Why don't you just shoot Pyrodex, or real BP from an inline? You can clean it with water just like a sidelock. It has the high stock you want, and comes with a recoil pad. It shoots conicals and sabots. You made no mention of wanting to shoot a PRB. It's easy to mount a scope or modern iron sights. It will be accurate to 200yds.
Sidelocks are copies of primitive guns. I don't think you really want one.
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Perhaps you're right. Maybe that is all I'm looking for. I'm not real sure I guess. Just kicking around ideas.
Most guys who go to traditional muzzleloaders want to do it the old way, and are willing to deal with the same problems they had then. It's 1800's technology. It takes a certain mindset.
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