Toby is getting confused .it was 1:20 then they changed it to 1:30
I'm pretty sure that was the case
Knight did have a MK85 in 45cal with a 1-24 but they are rare. Toby also got the White 451 rifle twist incorrect. Its not a 1-21 as far as i know, its also a 1-20.
Toby Bridges
Quote:
But, I have given it a try, and I certainly see the potential. The rifle I used was one of the .451 caliber White "Super 91" models, with a very snappy turn-in-21 inches rifling twist.
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Knight did have a MK85 in 45cal with a 1-24 but they are rare. Toby also got the White 451 rifle twist incorrect. Its not a 1-21 as far as i know, its also a 1-20.
Toby Bridges
Mk 85 I am not sure on but in the article he says when knight first brought out the 45 disc extreme it was 1:24. I am pretty sure the disc extreme was 1:20 .
Mk 85 I am not sure on but in the article he says when knight first brought out the 45 disc extreme it was 1:24. I am pretty sure the disc extreme was 1:20 .
Mk 85 I am not sure on but in the article he says when knight first brought out the 45 disc extreme it was 1:24. I am pretty sure the disc extreme was 1:20 .
I have a SS MK-85 with a 1:24 twist. I does not shoot to bad with the 200 gr SSTs. I am hoping to try Parker 275 gr BEs in it sabotless. The .449"s that Bob sized for me fit excellent.
I have never heard of a 1-24 DISC Extreme in 45 cal... That doesn't mean they were not out there but it is certainly a new for me...
Me too. Never seen or heard of such a creature.
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OK, so I just sat down and read Toby's report on the 45 from the front to the back.
I think i have a lot of issues with the report...
Quote:
When first offered in .45 caliber, the Knight Rifles DISC Extreme featured a turn-in-24 inches rifling twist.
I can not find anyplace that will verify that a Knight DISC Extreme ever came with a 1-24 twist in any caliber. It has already been established the MK-85 had a 1-24 in the 45 cal.
He keeps referring to a 45 DISC rifle and unless it was a test barrel that knight sent him, I'm just not sure what he might have been shooting... unless... it really was a 1-20.
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One of the problems that plagued the .45 in-line rifles was that rifle makers, in this case, had not done enough to first develop bullets for shooting light .400" diameter bullets out to 200 yards.
I certainly can not argue this point. There are very few rifle bullet quality .357 - .400 caliber bullets on the market. Although maybe Hornady is offering more than i thought.
I still believe a lot of the problem is the construction specifications of the bullet. Is it truly round and balanced? I think you could almost relate this back to round ball. We shoot round balls from slow twist bores because we know and expect the ball not to be perfectly round or balanced. If some could or would build a the perfect round ball and we did not mis-shape it loading it - could it not be shot from a fast twist bore at decent velocities?
I believe there has been growth in the 40 cal bullet selection both by Barnes, Hornady, TC, and Lehigh/Bloodline.
Quote:
The rifle I used was one of the .451 caliber White "Super 91" models, with a very snappy turn-in-21 inches rifling twist.
Is the Super 91 a 1-21 twist or is that and error also?
Quote:
Loading with 110-grains of Blackhorn 209 and a Harvester Muzzleloading 260-grain Scorpion PT Gold polymer tipped spire point, sans sabot, I found the bullet to ride on the rifling with just enough resistance to stay firmly seated over the powder charge. Accuracy was exceptional, with a number of groups close to .750" across. Velocity averaged 2,023 f.p.s. (which translates to 2,360 f.p.e.).
I believe his example of a Scorpion bullet to be another good example of the possibilities of the faster twist. The Scorpion (IMO) is not a bullet that i would say is an exceptionally well built bullet, but yet Toby says it performed great from the fast twist. Granted the 260 would be longer than the average lead copper bullet.
I really do not see that toby answered anything in evaluation, and maybe that was the point... maybe he was trying to stimulate thought and speculation.
On the other end of the spectrum could be Grouse and his thoughts.
Now. I am only speculating on these thoughts so do not hold Grouse to what I am saying...
I believe, in fact i know, that Grouse has a particular fondness for the 45 and what its potential might be. And like him, i believe that at the present we may have only scratched the surface of the possibilities.
With that, i think Grouse would like to see the development of the near perfect 45 and even the near perfect projectile to go along with it.
In his efforts he skips over things that might be of interest to some of the rest of us to rush his thoughts to the press.
Lehigh Dave has been building rifles long before Grouse contacted him. I also believe Dave to be a realist and Grouse to be the dreamer. Maybe with the two of them working in collaboration, they really could develop something that might set the 45 market apart and still be based on BP sub powders. And then you still have Knight in the middle of it "will they build it" and if the build it 'will the shooters come'
I, myself, am really lagging behind... you already know my initial impression of the 1-20 twist for the 45 is really high, but I still believe I must do some additional shooting with some regular 40 caliber offerings that a normal person might want to shoot from a 45.
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Went to Wholesale Sports this afternoon to look for some smaller bullets to test out of the 1-20.
I really am not even going to look for the best powder load - I just want to know if they will shoot accurately with 110 grains of BH.
You can see the .357-158 is approching the length of a .40-200 XTP, but it is a soft point not a hollow point - so it really might have a chance. The .40-155 is really stubby... but if either or both are built 'True' using someone elses word they really should fly. If they are not 'True' - out of round or imbalanced I will, I am pretty sure induce 'wobble' which is really going to affect accuracy.
Next will the little blue MMP sabots, and i only have a hand full - even hold up especially to the higher heat (temperature) that BH burns at. If I burn the first 3-4 shots up with BH then I will switch back to T7...
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Last edited by sabotloader; 02-10-2012 at 04:44 PM.
That article is full of errors. Old TB did not do his homework on this one. He has never liked the .45 and probably never will. He does not know what he is missing.
I haven't been posting much lately but this is one of my favorite topics and calibers. IMO it has more to offer than many people realize. Plus a 45cal is a joy to shoot for fun with the reduced recoil options.
My hope is, it becomes popular again and the aftermarket supports it better this time. I still think a 220gr 40 cal would be ideal in a lead/copper bullet. You really wont loose any fps vs a 200gr SST and it will carry a fair amount more FPE at longer ranges.
GM, i agree with you 100%.the little bit of extra weight along with the added BC & SD, would make a bullet like this a excellent long range option for the existing .45 cal 1:28 & 1:30 M/L rifles.i will also ad the testing i have seen on knurled .45 cal bullets Barnes .250 TEZ..250 gr SST& .260 gr PT gold are outstanding with 110 gr BH209 and a wad in the 1:28. 45 cal rifles.were talking 1" three shot groups to 1 hole 3 shot groups, with velocities right around 2000 FPS + or -. i am personally going to try out the .240 gr PT knurled...as you mentioned earlier the .45 cal folks are not interested in the 155-180 gr offerings.
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