J Shockey Gold FFG vs. JSG FFG SUPER Powder

[Thunder53]

Can anyone explain the difference between Jim Shockey Gold FFG Powder and Jim Shockey Gold FFG "SUPER" Powder, other than one comes in a white bottle and one (the Super powder) comes in a black bottle)??

Thanks.

[sabotloader]

Originally Posted by Thunder53

Can anyone explain the difference between Jim Shockey Gold FFG Powder and Jim Shockey Gold FFG "SUPER" Powder, other than one comes in a white bottle and one (the Super powder) comes in a black bottle)??

Thanks.

How is this... they are the same powder, but different!!!

Really the new powder, the super powder. is truly more robust 0 in that it provides more velocity. All the other things about it remain near the same.

Here are two outings on my part...

It was partly sunny today here in Moscow, that is about the best thing I can say about the weather. Along with the partly sunny came the cool temp of about 50* and the very high winds that pushed the wind chill factor way down there. But I was detirmened to get some shooting in.

I really wanted to test the new Super Powder to see if there was any chance for my "What if" question... Although after seeing a couple of the latest reports I was less than thrilled but I need to see for myself.

But, before I start on the powder let me tell you a bit about this gun, a Knight Big Horn 52 cal... I know there are a lot of folks out there that consider the 52 a waisted caliber, I was one of those folks for several years. The 1:26 twist rate and the fact that I normally shoot .458 bullets anyway + the really great bullet that is available for the gun the Lehigh .458/275 grain DOA.

This gun is known good shooter PJ included a collection of his targets with the rifle and there is no doubt that it can shoot. I decided to start a-new with the bore so I did my standard cleaning routine, First it weent our in the shop and Barnes CR10 was liberally patched in the barrel and allowed to stand for 30 minutes. Then it came back in and I washed the bore out with Zep Citrus Cleaner/Degreaser and the hottest tap water I could get. I use a bore mop for this process. When the soapy bath was done then the bore was rinsed with boiling water to strip any oils that might be trapped in the pores and to loosen any plastic fouling that might be hanging on behind the lands. The nback to shop to dry the bore with compressed air while the bore was boiling hot. Then back to the gun cradle while the bore was way to hot to handle. Two dry patches were then run to make sure it was dry. Then a visual inspection to see if I could see any flakes of plastic fouling... none to be seen PJ had cleaned the gun very well prior to shipping it to me. The bore is now stripped to bare clean metal. I then, while the bore is still way to hot to handle, run 4 patches T17 blue patches both sides. The hot bore litterally sucks the T17 up into the pores. From there the barrel the barrel cools to the point it can be handled by hand - still really warm but at least you can grab it. Clean white patches are ran to clean out the loose T17. And at this point, and the barrel is still warm, I put the Montana Xtreme BC in the bore and let it stand till the barrel is room temp. The last step - dry patch again and get as much out as you can.

Once this is all done the outside of the barrel is cleaned and treated and the whole works is reassembled.

PJ use a scope on the gun but I installed a Williams FP sight and plan to keep the gun an open sight gun for Idaho's ML season. I then bore sighted it and waited for the powder to get and then the weather to clear up a bit... today it di and today was the day to shoot.

Headed to farm.... I had already decided to shoot the JSG-SP first. I only had 20 of the Lehigh .458/220's left and staying in the parameters set by APP, I shot 100 grains of loose powder by volume and a bullet less than 250 grains.

Shooting condition were not very good at all... the winds were blowing right across the target (left to right) and to even pour the powder you had to stand with your back in the wind and keep the powder and measure close to your chest to shield the powder from the wind.

I popped 3 #11 caps to clean the BP - ran a windex patch to clean that fouling and went about loading the first shot.
On the target you can see there were four groups shot today. After each group the FP sight was adjusted to get me closer to the 10 ring. Target was set at 50 yards.

I was really disappointed in the first group of 4 shots, but then after reading other posts... I just thought well it goes with the powder. The good thing! I remember thinking to myself these velocities are not like the older APP powders I have shot!!! They are not even close to as anemic as the old stuff. One other observation... in the house I had decided the powder to be fairly uniform but out in the daylight it was really obvious that it was not uniform but certainly not as big as the old APPs... Some feel that this powder might be resurected Pinnacle, but I do not remember Pinnacle having these velocities either.

OK so the second group did not do much for me either but the velocities held up. Group 3 began to show some promise and again very good velocities.

It was time to switch powders as I was running out of bullets. During the JSG-SP shooting no patches were ran and non were necessary, everything loaded just fine.

Basically I only shot one group of T7 and shot #17 was all me I felt it slip out but I wanted to get it shot and get packed up, I really wanted to shoot this last group to check velocities for the comparison. Also during this T7 shooting no patches were run - non were necessay and many more shots could have been had with out running a patch.

One windex patch was ran after shooting JSG-SP and one patch was ran after shooting T7.

Then I went back and found the BH velocities for the same bullet but these velocities are with 110 grains of BH and 209 ignition. When you throw those velocities in the mix, maybe APP has something when they say comparable velocities with BH???? That might be why they limit the powder to 250 grain bullets, because as you go up in weight the BH will get better.

Here are some general pics of todays outing....



And here is today's target....



For myself... I have made no real decisions about JSG-SP yet I am going to have to do more shooting with it to give it a fair chance. It still could hold some promise which is good - I really did not want to fertilize the flower bed again with left over JSG.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...jsg-sp-t7.html

Headed to the farm this morning to run a couple of test projects.

First project was a continuation of the Super Powder testing. and the Second was to confirm FG's findings about shooting with Rain Gear on the muzzle of the gun, which I must tell you I did not really believe his test and I still not sold on my test - I will have to repeat the test.

Test One....

I was set to compare velocities and accuracy of the three powders being tested. Jim Shockey Gold Super Powder, Triple Seven-2f, and BH-209.

I chose to use a Knight DISC Extreme 50 MHC for the test rifle, it was out on the counter so I took it. What I forgot was the trigger pull was way to soft for me and after shooting my normal 3# pull triggers get use to the 2.3-4# of the MHC did take some getting use.

As usual the wind was blowing well at the farm, easily 7-10 mph right across the target - right to left. But, I can not control that so the shooting went on.

Another thing that I now need to agree with Tom on, shooting a Leupold 3x9 Ultimate Slam with the reticule they use is kinda difficult on targets. The circle-dot combination they use really covers a bunch of the triangle bull... It is a great reticule for hunting but I would choose something different for target shooting.

To start the testing off, i will start with a picture that I took last week of the Super Powder. Just for drill last week I opened the powder just see what might be happening, you all should remember the power was opened and tested last month also. I was disappointed in what I saw... but I guess it is just an illness that APP has....





This jug had been resealed after shooting last time. The extra bottle sealed had even been flipped over, installed in the lid and the lid screwed tightly to the bottle. But as you see - a lump was already forming. I put the lid back on and rolled the powder on the tail gate and the lump broke up very easily...

Today when I got to the farm, I opened the bottle again and guess what...



Another lump... I touched it with the volume measure and it broke up very easily. Also I saw that there were now two packages of dryer in the bottle - I had seen one on the original test but had not seen a second one until today.

Here is my impression of the Super Powder. I firmly believe that this Super Powder is ore lively than any of the older App powders. I was looking for some of my old information from the old days when i was shooting APP but I could not find anything.

My first shot this morning with 100 grains of SP and a 250 grain Seer Gold Dot recorded 1881 fps and at that time I thought - that is darn good for an APP. The following shots stayed right in that range. I remember thinking wow! that might be right at T7 velocities.

The second powder shot was T7 the first shot with T7 clocked 1931... and my faith in SP moved back down a notch - but really it should not have 1850+ fps is really not that bad for a 100 grains.

The last powder shot was BH-209...

Here is this morning target... One thing the target does not show. The only primer used was a Winchester T7 primer.



Keep a couple of things in mind... Shot #1 was from a clean bore with primer fouling only... Shots 2 & 3 laid right in there and the Super Powder scored a couple of more points with me. Also no sign of anything that might be thought of as a 'crud ring'

Shooting T7-2f... shot #6 was totally my fault along with the very light trigger pull. That is why I took shot #7 with the T7, i wanted to prove to myself again the powder is accurate. Actually I think had I taken the extra shot with the Super Powder it would have been right in the group also. And yes... there was a hint of a 'crud ring'

Bh-209 was the same as I expected in the accuracy department but not the velocity that I expected... but then a 250 grain bullet really does not make BH work that hard... it gets out of the barrel to quickly and does not allow the progressive burning powder to work as efficiently as it can. Again I have to take the blame for shot #8 - actually some of the blame needs to shared with the wind and trying to keep everything steady.

Some day i should buy one of those fancy gun sleds that holds everything secure for you... them basically all you have to do is pull the trigger.

The last test of the day was to check FG's thought that Rain Gear on the muzzle might effect POI. I often shoot with 'Rain Gear' on the muzzle - have for several years but have never really thought or worried about POI. This small test is not enough yet for me to draw a positive conclusion, i will have to repeat it again on another outing...

Rain Gear...




http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...ting-farm.html