This is in no way a slam to the traditional guys, but I never thought I would be interested in the traditional muzzleloaders. But recently, I have really been thinking about a sidelock. I really like the looks of the Cabelas Traditional Hawken. Now, this is nothing that I can afford to do right now, but am interested in learning about them. I like the idea of maybe shooting round balls. So, that being said, tell me what some of the differences are between the Inlines, and the sidelocks. Tell me about lead balls, patches, powders...... whatever there is to know. Like I said, not looking to run out and buy now, (wife would kill me) just looking to learn a little about them.
__________________ Captain of Team 13, Natural Bone Killers
Besides the ignition systems being different, many times the barrel twist rate is also different. Most inlines have a fast twist like 1-28. Many of the traditional rifles have twists that range from 1-70 to 1-32. The faster the twist the more inclined they are to shooting conicals and sabots. The slower twists normally are used with roundball.
Roundball vary in weight according to diameter of course. And patches vary in thickness. The trick is to match a ball and patch to fit the bore of your rifle. You want a tight fit, but not a pound down the barrel fit.
Also while inlines sometimes shoot magnum charges, many of the traditionals shoot best with 100 grains or less. One of the biggest differences is inlines are more prone to be scoped. Although many traditional rifles are scoped as well.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
Besides the ignition systems being different, many times the barrel twist rate is also different. Most inlines have a fast twist like 1-28. Many of the traditional rifles have twists that range from 1-70 to 1-32. The faster the twist the more inclined they are to shooting conicals and sabots. The slower twists normally are used with roundball.
Roundball vary in weight according to diameter of course. And patches vary in thickness. The trick is to match a ball and patch to fit the bore of your rifle. You want a tight fit, but not a pound down the barrel fit.
Also while inlines sometimes shoot magnum charges, many of the traditionals shoot best with 100 grains or less. One of the biggest differences is inlines are more prone to be scoped. Although many traditional rifles are scoped as well.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
The first thing you need to know is --- sidelocks make you smile.
Next - balls are about the cheapest thing around (and cost nothing if you cast your own with "found or begged" lead. Real black powder and Pyrodex both work well in sidelocks, and loose Triple 7 works in all of mine. Pellets are not the thing for sidelocks, nor is Blackhorn 209.
As Cayugad points out, a fast twist sidelock (such as the 1:28 Green Mountain Long Range Hunter replacement barrels) will shoot sabboted bullets on a par with in-lines.
My opinions:
With balls, bigger is better. So you may as well go with a .54 if you can. A .58 makes a BIG hole and is a hoot to shoot. Every shooter should own at least one iron sighted .54 or .58 sidelock with a slow twist barrel.
A scoped sidelock with a fast twist barrel gives up nothing to the in-lines and is, in general, easier to clean and more pleasing to the eye.
I'm not a fan of the 1:48" twist barrels, though I admit many seem to do the conical/ball thing well. Still, my preference is for either a slow twist ball barrel or a fast twist conical/sabot barrel.
We don't need no stinking Blackhorn.
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My wife says I'm totally nuts, but I think I'm Semisane.
Things I've Learned: (1) It's not possible to please everyone, but quite easy to piss everyone off. (2) If you love animals as I do, then you're not a vegetarian. (3) There's no need to act stupid, even if you're very good at it. (4) If you eat right and exercise, don't smoke or drink, you're going to die anyway.
I shot my first sidehammer in 1975...I still remember it like it was yesterday...In 1977, I bought my first flintlock, a custom made .45...I have since made my own .54...I make my own patch lube and buy pillow ticking by the yard...My dentist gives me lead so I make my own balls...The last batch of Goex cost me $11.55 a pound...I bought 100 flints back in the 80s...
As you can see, there are many things a guy can do that spin off from the traditional side of muzzle loading...Tomorrow I'm giving a talk at a local school on the American Revolution...Two Saturdays ago, I did the same at a Boy Scout Rondevous, we had about 600 Scouts there...
I've won trophys from competitive shooting with these guns...I've studied the history of our country for over 30 years because of these rifles...
Plus...I've killed over 50 deer with a flintlock, plenty of squirrels and also my first wild turkey, called in with a wing bone call that I made back in 1979...
A .54 caliber lead ball is deadly on deer...Look at it this way, with a .50 caliber inline you are shooting a.45 conical bullet...With a .54 the ball is already .53 caliber...That .45 has to expand to reach .53 caliber...The ball expands easily because of the flatter frontal surface and because its pure lead...Put that ball through the lungs of a deer and it dies just as quickly as one hit with a conical or a bow or a centerfire...
Not comfortable shooting deer with a ball??? Buy a .32, .36 or .40 caliber flintlock...Some of my best days in the field are with my .40 caliber flintlock shooting squirrels...With 25grs of powder you get a ton of shots in a pound...
I will warn you...Flintlocks make boys out of men...
I have tried all the calibers from 36 to 62, I ended up with a 45 for close target and small game and a 54 for long range and big game. There are several reasons why a 54 is good for long range and big game. The long range part of it is because the weight of the ball is much better for BC along with the combination of being light enough to get over 2000 FPS and the right twist to stabilize the ball at that speed. The other reason is that a 54 ball which starts out bigger than a lot of bullets expand to going at 2000 FPS or better can drop game on the spot, This is not an easy effect to get, or at least it has not been for me; the smaller calibers will take game but the smaller caliber the better tracker you better be, and the bigger calibers do not have the right twist for very good velocity and if they did the recoil of 3/4 the bullet weight in powder would have an equal recoil.
The 45 with a 1-48 twist is very pleasant to shot normally using 50 to 60 gr of powder is very accurate to 50 yds and very good on small game, and you can take a deer with them at close range but do not expect to drop him on the spot.
Some people prefer a 36 or a 40 caliber for small game such as squirrel and they work well for that, they do tend to get dirty faster than the bigger calibers.
I still have some of the traditional rifles I had when inlines first came out and my son will end up with them as he still prefers them. I believe they are a lot of fun but I like inlines to even if they do not have the looks of a fine traditional.
I will admit I'm biased toward T/C's Hawken and Renegade. They look and feel better to me than the Cabela's and CVAs I've picked up. I've only shot the T/Cs. I don't like the looks of a scope on these guns. If your eyes are up to it, a peep sight will allow you to take deer out to 100 yds. I limit my range to around 75 and prefer closer shots. Last deer I shot with my .54 Renegade was at around 80 yds, and that home-cast 435 gr Maxiball sure did wilt that deer in a hurry. There is something about the killing power of big lead bullets.
I bought a Cabelas Hawken off a buddy that bought the kit and never did more than sand on the stock some. A yr later he still hadn't touched it. I bought it off of him to work on my days off when things slowed down at work.
I have roughly 40 hrs into mine. Almost 20 in the stock alone to make it perfect. I hand sanded all, and cut away alot of excess wood and wood burns. Shaped the check pad and flutes to give it character. 5 hours just in polishing the brass or actually sanding the casting down so I could polish it. Redid the side lock part and painted the inlay floral pattern. Went to the hardware store and got all brass screws to replace the ugly black steel screws. I hand rubbed all the oil, polish and wax on the stock taking time between coats.
It is by far my favorite gun in my collection. Took my first deer this season with it the second time I took it into the woods which only made it that much better in my mind.
Thanks. I really do enjoy seeing it sitting in my gun cabinet, in my hands as I sit in my stand, and even more so when I am pushing down another load after taking a shot at a deer.
Plan to put up some brass hooks for it after Christmas and all the stuff comes down so it can take its proper place over my mantle.
Never thought I would hear myself say this
just looking to learn a little about them.
