Whats the best fit of a sabot in the barrel?

[Breechplug]

How do you know if your sabots are too tight or too loose? I know one's that are too loose or to tight will have an effect on your accuracy, and that you want a tighter fitting sabot over a loose one but not too tight or loose, but how do you know when you have the right (fit)?
I have never had an issue with a sabot's fit befor, and I dont think I do now, but my Barrel on My ACCURA takes a (new) load pretty easy. It does'nt go down the barrel real easy, there is some resistance but not as much as My other MLers. After the first, second and third shots it get's harder of course. Then after a swap it's still a good fit, but the first load on a newlt cleaned barrel is as smooth as silk loading. Is this too loose?
I use the 240gr XTP Mag Bullets from TC in the 30 pack included with the sabots, I have no idea what sabots TC uses for theese. My groups are tight, 1" at 100 yds. Should I worry about this?
Or is it just that My (Bergara Barrel) is so nicely (Polished) on the inside that I should expect this on a newly cleaned barrel?
(BP)

[flounder33]

With groups like that you have no problems. You could always try different sabots when practicing, just to see how they load and shoot.

[flounder33]

Sabotloader provides some great info on this thread you might want to look at.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...ur-optima.html
Art

[sabotloader]

Breechplug

For me, it is a feeling thing.... I can feel as I am pushing the load down the barrel whether it is to tight or to loose. Even then loose is not the end of the world. To tight on the other hand certainly can be.

I do not know who first suggested the weight/measure thing - might have been Phil... but the suggestion was it should take somewhaere in the neighborhood of 30/40 lbs of pressure to load a sabot, and I am going to use the word, correctly...

There has been a lot made of a tight sabot - better accuracy - and there is some truth to that. But IMO more is made of this than necessary. Back when I was doing a lot of sabot testing - I was shooting an A&H and the normal sabot that I used was a HPH-24, because a HPH-12 would not go down with beating it down. The gun shot great with a 24 and either a .451 or .452 projectile, even a .4515 Seirra. Then Del sent me some HPH-3p-EZ'z to test before they were released to the market. I suggested to Del at the time they might be to loose for me as the 24's worked just fine in every rifle that I had. He asked that I try them and give him a report.

My decision was if I were going to test them I might as well test some other 'thin sabots' - so I picked up some Harvesters long & short and some of their new 'crush rib' sabots.

In the testing the all of harvesters and the 3p certainly loaded somewhat easier than the 24's, with the 'crush ribs' and 3p's noticeably easier, but not fall down the barrel easy.

They all shot relatively the same POI @ 100 yards -which really kind of amazed me - but the difference came in velocity across the chrono. The thinner sabots did loose around 100 to 150 fps second across the chrono.... EXCEPT the 3p's they maintained approximately the same velocity as the 24's.

When I talked to Del about it this - it was all about 'obturation' the MMP formulation of polymere is of course somewhat differnet than Harvester. The MMP formulation is more pliable - like seems softer... Take a couple of mmps and a couple of harvesters and throw them in a freezer for a few days. Take them out and see which ones you think are easier to bend. The 'pliabilty' of the polymere makes it easier for them to mold themselves to the bore and the pliabilty also make them 'obturate' to the bore - providing a very tight seal.

The abilty of either the Harvester or the MMP to 'obturate' actually gives them the abilty to work in my different bores with many different bore conditions - cause goodness knows my bore are not the same as yours and my 'tightness' is not the same as your 'tightness'

Gees! all lot of wind written here with not much said...

[Underclocked]

If the sabot loads with a steady but just firm push, I like it. If it takes more than that, I don't. If I have to strain my arm to load a sabot, I'll switch to conicals in a heartbeat.

Tighter is better is mostly boolchit. At least where sabots are concerned.

[lemoyne]

I like to try everything for myself, I have spent a lot of time and money trying all the sabots I could get in different guns. The conclusion I came to was that the to loose and to tight are fairly obvious and if they shoot a decent group then you know thats the right one. I guess the thing that surprised me most is that some times two bullets the same diameter will shoot best with different length sabots. Lee

[Breechplug]

sabotloader, Thank's for the info. What I found about loading the sabots I use is the way underclocked described it (a steady but firm push) I can load them on a clean barrel with just one arm. After a few shots without swabing they get a little harder of course. But what Im mostly concerned about is the (first shot) out of the newly cleaned barrel because this is the shot I'll use for Hunting.
Should you completely clean your barrel between shots to be sure where your first shot will be as they are not the same as ones from a fouled bore even though I swab between every 4-5 shots.
What Im trying to say is that when you shoot or sight in after the first shot no matter how much you swab your still shooting on a slightly fouled bore, not a shinny clean one as you'd use for your first Hunting shot, thus your first clean barrel shot will be different as each sabot will have different resistance.Or is the resistance on each sabot so little it should'nt matter. My groups are tight after a sight in, but then the barrel is cleaned so are you back to the beginning with a clean barrel vs a fouled one for where your firsy shot will be?
(BP)

[SWThomas]

I just shoot. I decided that the Barnes T-EZ was the bullet for me and then decided to pick the sabot that gave me the best accuracy. I tested that bullet with 4 different sabots and went with the one that grouped the best. The tightness of the fit had nothing to do with it.

[sabotloader]

Breechplug

I cam honestly tell that i shoot a semi clean barrel, it is not squeaky clean as if I were going to put the rifle away. But, I also need to tell you I do not believe in the old addage of stripping the bore to shoot. I just can not take a rifle bore to the field in the weather that I hunt with a stripped sqeaky clean bore...

What Im trying to say is that when you shoot or sight in after the first shot no matter how much you swab your still shooting on a slightly fouled bore, not a shinny clean one as you'd use for your first Hunting shot, thus your first clean barrel shot will be different as each sabot will have different resistance.Or is the resistance on each sabot so little it should'nt matter. My groups are tight after a sight in, but then the barrel is cleaned so are you back to the beginning with a clean barrel vs a fouled one for where your firsy shot will be?

You are expressing exactly my thoughts - I think - very few would go along with what i do but it works for me and I have never had a problem - especially with the advent of Montana X-treme BC...

We start a tradition ML elk on December 2. I will use a Renegade with a GM-LRH barrel. The barrel has been sighted in - re-checked to POI of this summer. The gun was stripped cleaned and stored until now.

Tomorrow, I will shoot it to verify POI. My routine will be, to go to the farm tomorrow. I will pop 3-4 #11 mag caps. I will then windex patch the bore a couple of times. Load 90 grains of T7-3f, a .510 x .125 shot card and set a .503/460 grain Bull Shop on top of that. I will shoot 3 to five shots to verify POI and I am done at the farm. When I get home I will run a couple of windex patches, a couple of dry patches. then a patch of X-treme BC - not very much BC just enough to add some bore protection against the hunting elements. Dry patch again. Then Tuesday night I will reload the gun and go hunting on Wednesday. If I do not get any hunting shots the gun will stay loaded all elk season.

This is the same routine I would use with a inline sabot gun also. In essence I never shoot a squeaky clean bore. I do not even try to have a squeaky clean bore during the season. I feel good about this because I know I also have bore protection with the BC in the bore.

[Breechplug]

Originally Posted by sabotloader

Breechplug

I cam honestly tell that i shoot a semi clean barrel, it is not squeaky clean as if I were going to put the rifle away. But, I also need to tell you I do not believe in the old addage of stripping the bore to shoot. I just can not take a rifle bore to the field in the weather that I hunt with a stripped sqeaky clean bore...



You are expressing exactly my thoughts - I think - very few would go along with what i do but it works for me and I have never had a problem - especially with the advent of Montana X-treme BC...

We start a tradition ML elk on December 2. I will use a Renegade with a GM-LRH barrel. The barrel has been sighted in - re-checked to POI of this summer. The gun was stripped cleaned and stored until now.

Tomorrow, I will shoot it to verify POI. My routine will be, to go to the farm tomorrow. I will pop 3-4 #11 mag caps. I will then windex patch the bore a couple of times. Load 90 grains of T7-3f, a .510 x .125 shot card and set a .503/460 grain Bull Shop on top of that. I will shoot 3 to five shots to verify POI and I am done at the farm. When I get home I will run a couple of windex patches, a couple of dry patches. then a patch of X-treme BC - not very much BC just enough to add some bore protection against the hunting elements. Dry patch again. Then Tuesday night I will reload the gun and go hunting on Wednesday. If I do not get any hunting shots the gun will stay loaded all elk season.

This is the same routine I would use with a inline sabot gun also. In essence I never shoot a squeaky clean bore. I do not even try to have a squeaky clean bore during the season. I feel good about this because I know I also have bore protection with the BC in the bore.

Mike I like your way of doing this, I was thinking the exact same thing as loading in a semi clean barrel and Hunting with it. But I was a little worried about my bore. Last Fall like many of you after reading the reports on MX BC and MX Gun Oil I purchased 3 of each from Midwest Shooters Supply and have used the MX BC regulary in my bore. I guess if you say your bore stays protected not being fully clean then I'll try it.
I know on a slightly fouled bore my ML will shoot exactly where I want it, there's no guessing where my first shot will be or the second if needed. Because like I said in my last reply after I sight in and get the bore fouled, then patch it after a few shots my groups are tight, 1"at 100yds, and it keeps the groups tight.
In a way I was a little surprised you said you Hunt with a Bore slightly dirty, I was afarid to ask others if this was something that was O.K. to do because they'd say it would ruin my bore.
But Im gonna try it, Thank's for being Honest!
And another favor from you....I shot a 136lb Doe with My ACCURA on Thankgiving day, I harvested a Management Doe from our Property, she was a 5 1/2 year old and had to go, plus I needed to break the ACCURA in with it's first Harvest. Would you post a pic of it for me in a Forum later? I'd appreciate it. I'll send you a pic later tonight after I get back from Hunting.
Thank's Again Mike!
Ron (BP)