smokless in a pro hunter

[nysmoker]

OK I AM NOT GOING TO DO THIS ! Dont jump on me ! But a couple of guys are doing this with their pro hunters and older encore rifles ...Now last I heard the only smokeless powder ml was a savage.Why would they do this and what could they gain .. versus a center fire rifle ... Can you tell I am bored and its raining cats and dogs here????

[cayugad]

Why would they do this...

A. Have not read the manual or warning labels
B. Have a death wish
C. Like to live on the edge
D.Their IQ is in need of great help
E. Because some people think they can defeat the odds and do dumb things.
F. They love ambulance rides
G. They have a great health care plan

What might they gain...

A. A small velocity increase that would never be noticed bythe NorthAmerican Whitetail Deer
B.They don't have to swab between shots or clean their rifle as soon as some of the conventonal shooters. Although with some of the new powders on the market, even that is not a real valid reason.
C. Plastic Surgery
D.A cool granite rock or brass plate with their name and date of birth on it.


These people that try all of this experimental shooting smokeless powder in a rifle not made for it, take chances. Every time they pull the trigger, they take a chance. If I saw this on the range I would bring it to the attention of the range master, and sit as far away from them as possible.

[MLKeith]

You are correct that the Savage is the only large scale production muzzleloader that will safely handle smokeless loads when the correct powder and loads are used. The problem is that there are some smokeless powders that respond similar to black powder (have similar pressure curves). Notice I said there are SOME and I said SIMILAR not exactly the same and not all smokeless powders. Smokeless powder is much more sensitive to pressure and loading areas and loading techniques than black powder or the substitutes so trying to shoot smokeless in any type in a rifle that was not designed and tested for that powder is just asking for real trouble up to and including failure of the rifle which can, and probably will cause severe damage to the shooter up to and including death. Not sure why anyone would chance this. As far as any advantage the only one is less corrosion or fouling possiblities but there are substitute powders that are almost as corrosion and fouling free. Blackhorn 209 (which has very suspicious similarities to smokeless powder) and the new form of Black Mag III which is now being called Black Mag XP which is soon to be available from MDM as they finally got control of the company and are now the owners. As far as comparing with centerfire rifles there is no comparison as the ballistics are way different even for the Savage. You just cannot push a .50 caliber bullet out of a muzzleloader as fast as a .30 caliber bullet out of a centerfire rifle.

[Grouse45]

I know of a few people doing that as well. NONE of them are using the factory breech plug.

[broome buck]

nysmoker there is a company called smi that makes a barrell for this

[DeerandbearhoG]

Yeah I went on the SMI website once .I think they make smokeless barrels for encores, H&Rs and rem 700s.

[Mr.Flintlock]

My advice is DONT DO IT. What is to gain by using smokless powder in a ML not designed for it? Parts of your head, fingers, hands and other parts of your body ripped apart by flying metal pieces of your rifle. DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT USING SMOKLESS POWDER IN A GUN NOT DESIGNED FOR IT!

[DaveF]

In a recent Hunter Education class, one of the people taking the course mentioned that she was told a Pro-Hunter could be used with smokeless powder. You wonder where this stuff comes from. After showing her the information in the manual, she still was reluctant to believe the "no smokeless" warning.

Hope she doesn't get hurt.

[spaniel]

I am sure you could find a smokeless powder and charge that was safe.....but I would NOT want to be the guinea pig trying to find this out by actually shooting one from my shoulder. I'd want a few different barrels and test them to failure, as well as having the equipment to measure and understand the pressures generated.

Some day I'm sure I'll have a Rem700 converted to smokeless, it is on my "gun wish list" but a-ways down. My plain jain Omega does pretty much everything I need unless I want to be dropping animals at 500+yds with a ML, which is a bit extreme.

[nysmoker]

Spaniel

Is your remington a 50 caliber or 54? Did they ever make a conversion kit too the 209 for the remington700?