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Old 05-01-2009, 06:39 AM   #1
Fork Horn
 
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Default Traditins Hawken Woodsman

Well, I just got a Traditions Hawken Wodsman .50. I am pretty adept with my T/C In-Line but this is a different animal. I will be asking lots of Qs to help me out. Lets start with the ball & patch. For a .50 does the ball have to be like .490 or anything? The patch, wet, dry, lubed? Also, can I shoot Conicals with no patch? I will be using T7 FFg and #11 percusion cap. Any and all info welcome.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:37 AM   #2
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

Powerfisher

Quote:
Lets start with the ball & patch. For a .50 does the ball have to be like .490 or anything? The patch, wet, dry, lubed? Also, can I shoot Conicals with no patch? I will be using T7 FFg and #11 percusion cap. Any and all info welcome.
There are some real experts on this on this board, so the information I provide can easily be overidden by others...

First question... .490 round ball, there is also a .495 round ball.

The patch... I am using a pre-lubed patch but I also add some of Cayugad's Moose Milk so the patch is a bit damp. I use a .018 patch, actually Dave suggested that size a long time ago for me but I thought the .015 patch loaded better... I shoot a 50 cal Renegade.

The key is to find the right size of patch and ball combination for your barrel. I tried some .495's and to load them them I would have to use a very thin patch so I am using a .490 ball and a .018 patch.

Now conicals! I can help a little bit more with. I shoot 460 gr. -.503 Bullshops from my Renegades (I know it sounds terribly heavy) and I do use a shot card between the powder and the base of the conical. I do that for two reasons. 1- it keeps the concical lube from contaminating the top of the powder, especially in warm weather. 2- I am shooting T7-3f, which is really hot powder so the shot card helps to insulate the bottom of the lead bullet so I am not melting lead on the way up the bore.

Have fun with that Woodsman - i had one once and it is a good rifle...
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:08 AM   #3
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

OK, thanks for the PRB info. Now for more Qs. Shot card? Is that like a Gas Check? What is the diamiter of the shot card? What is the patch pre-lubed with? What is moose milk? Is it really moose milk? The conicals diamiter should be .503 or are there different diamiters like .501, .502 and so on? Should I mic the ID of my barrel and find out how tight it is and then go up 100th of an inch? I am going to be asking a lot of elementary questions so please be patient with me. Thanks.
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #4
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

As sabotloader pointed out, standard sizes of roundballs are .490 and .495. You can buy moulds for these sizes as well as custom sized balls. Pre- lubed patches come in standardthickness of.010, .015, .020.
And, as sabotloader also pointed out you need to try diffrent combinations of ball/patch/powder/lube and see what works best in your rifle.

When using patch/ball combination I like to use a combination that loads fairly easy with a short starter. If the ball/patch is too loose it may not be accurate and if it is too tight you may have to hammer it in and that will most likely deform the ball causing it to be out of balance and cause inaccuracy.

If you want to make your own patches Wal-Mart sells pillow ticking that works well for me. Lubes can be crisco, animal fat, Olive oil and there are several commerical lubes that work well. Lately I have been experimenting with a 50/50 mix of olive oil and water. This seems to work pretty well . I put the mixture in a squeeze bottle and shake it before putting it on to the patch. With this mixtureI seldom have to swab between shots.

Have fun experimenting and good luck.


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Old 05-01-2009, 09:57 AM   #5
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

Powerfisher

Quote:
Shot card? Is that like a Gas Check? What is the diamiter of the shot card?
I use a shot card that is .510x.125 - it really is not a gas check - just protection.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(srtecs453ejz1un5tuuc3fr4))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=37&styleID=121

Quote:
What is the patch pre-lubed with?
I use these pre-lubed patches, but a lot of people prefer to cut their own. They are pre-lubed with Wonderlube..

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(srtecs453ejz1un5tuuc3fr4))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=33&styleID=112

Quote:
What is moose milk? Is it really moose milk?
No it is not real moose milk. Catugad will get on this post sooner or later and he can give you the ingredients and the mixing instruction for making your own supply of 'moose milk.'

Quote:
The conicals diamiter should be .503 or are there different diamiters like .501, .502 and so on?
I prefer to use slip fit conicals - they are a lot easier to lload during hunting and they do come in various sizes and weight. The lead conicals you buy in a store off the shelf usually come with a taper fit and you would need to use a short starter to get them going in your barrel.



I treid to go to Dan's web site looks like he is re-building it right now - not a lot of information there. Another good place is No-Excuse Conicals. Dave is a great guy and gets orders out quickly - easy to work with.

http://muzzleloading-bullets.com/

Quote:
Should I mic the ID of my barrel and find out how tight it is and then go up 100th of an inch?
You can do that and probably should but i would be willing to bet the .503 is what you are going to need.

Quote:
I am going to be asking a lot of elementary questions so please be patient with me.
That is the best part of this site - we love questions....
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:48 AM   #6
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

there are a couple of ways to make moose milk. Its been around for ever it seems and everyone has a little different reciepe. These are the two that I use the most.


#1

A general purpose black powder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 4 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated) 16 oz.

I dip my patching in this twice and let it dry between. Makes a semi-dry patch material that's easy to carry & use. If you don't mind carrying a little bottle it's a GREAT liquid lube as is.

Be sure when making the Moose milk to mix the alcohol and castor oil together first. Then add the witch hazel. Add all of this to the water and shake. Finally after that mixture is all together add the Murphy"ôs oil soap.



#2
4 ounces NAPA Auto Parts #765-1526 Soluble Cutting & Grinding Oil
1 ounce Murphy's Oil Soap
7 ounces 91% Isopropyl alcohol
16 ounces tap water

I own two Tradition Hawkin Woodsman .50 caliber rifles. One a flintlock and then the other of course a cap lock. Both of them like the same load.. .490 roundball, moose milk lubed .018 100% cotton pillow tick patch material. 90 grains of black powder in 2f. The flintlock does real well with 3f also.

I purchase the material at Wal Mart. It comes in red or blue stripe. Both are .018 in thickness. Was them in the washing machine then LINE DRY.

As for the lube there is two ways to use it. You can saturate a strip of material (it tears real easy.. count out six stripes and tear all the way down the material piece.) ring the excess fluid out of the material, then lay that over an old window screen out in the sun to dry. The oil will stay in the cloth. This is commonly called a dry patch. Or take a bottle, I use an old bug juice bottle with the pump sprayer. Spritz the cloth real good, ring it out or fold the wet cloth against the dry cloth, as you use it up. Then set the ball at the muzzle and cut the strip away.

These rifles will shoot sabots. I was shooting 240 grain .44 caliber XTP's out of mine the other day with pretty good results.

As for conicals, you do not need to patch a conical. I personally shoot very few conicals out of my traditional rifles because my Whites have spoiled me rotten. When I want to throw big lead, I grab a White.

The wads are .510x.125 thickness. Sometimes they help sometimes they don't. You can also make them with a 1/2 or 9/16th in hollow hole punch and some 100% wool felt. The stuff in hardware stores that they tuck around windows work real good.

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Old 05-01-2009, 11:27 AM   #7
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

Thanks for the recipies and information. So, I am able to understand almost everything you mentioned. However, I dont fully understand the wad. I know it seperates the powder from the patched ball or whatever is going to be shot from the rifle but how do you load the wad? Will it bunch up on the way down the bore, will it sit at an angle, not fully seat and not offer full protection? Now, sometimes the wads help and sometimes they dont so, should I use one every time I fire or is it a preferance thing? I wouldnt think it is needed for a sabot but for a conicle or PRB it may be, so.....to wad or not to wad, that is my question? Once again, thanks for all the help.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:21 PM   #8
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

.490 round ball, .015 patch, start out with 70gr pyrodex RS and take 3 shots and slowly work your way up. My traditions flinter is a powder pig, its best load for 100 yards is 110gr 3f goex.

Also i advise you to replace that nipple ASAP. I keep seeing people complaining about traditions factory nipples cracking/breaking off after a few shots. Thats something you dont want to experience LOL.


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Old 05-01-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

The wad has a couple reasons for being used. And sometimes it will help and sometimes it will not. It will level the pressures from the powder ignition a little. It will also protect the patch. You will find if you shoot Triple Seven for instance, the patch without a wad can be shredded. With a wad, there is little damage to it. With Pyrodex RS and other black powders, it seems that the patch damage is not so extreme.

The wad is a stiff cardboard or felt construction. It will not go down at an angle because the loading jag will straighten it in the barrel and then seat it right on the powder charge.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:00 PM   #10
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Default RE: Traditins Hawken Woodsman

Thanks. I should be good to go......for now. I cant wait for it to arrive!
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