Important Update on 200grn Lehigh Bullets

[Grouse45]

Anyone that has been following my testing of the testing of the .40/200 grain Lehigh bullet knows I have always shot them with a significant powder charge to reach an increased velocity. Further, my tests have been conducted from a 45 caliber muzzleloader. My testing indicated increased velocity significantly improved the accuracy of the bullet. Other shooters, testing the same bullet in a 50 caliber muzzleloader are not achieving the same accuracy. Using the feedback, I immediately called Dave at Lehigh and to discuss the difference in accuracy. Dave calculated the numbers, with the 1/28 "“ 1/30 twist rates, the 200 grain Lehigh should be shot at velocity of 2300+ fps to achieve the best stabilization for extended ranges. The bullets are physically to long for a 1/28 -1/30 twist rate without shooting them at the higher velocity. Actual testing in the real world appears to verify this calculation. As a result of this conference, Dave is going to redesign the bullet to reduce the length of the bullet. With the reduction in length the bullet will provide the accuracy and terminal performance needed at a lower velocity rate and allow the bullet to be shot from a 1/28 twist. This reduction in length, at first indication, will reduce the projectile weight to about 185 grains. These new bullets should be ready in May for field testing.
The current 200 grn. bullets shoot and perform AWESOME in the 45 Knight Disc Elite at 2300 feet plus per second. Shooting these same bullets at 2000 fps and less from a 50 cal. White Muzzleloader (1/24 twist) and a .451 White (1/20 twist) also produces outstanding accuracy. Testing conducted by Sabotloader and Cayugad has confirmed this.
It should be pointed out, I believe the 200 grain Lehigh remains a viable bullet. If you are shooting a 45 cal. muzzleloader with a 1/24 or higher twist rate or if you reach the 2300 fps velocity shooting the .40/200 grain Lehigh is not an issue. Remember, the 45 cal muzzleloader is more adapted to this as bore allows greater pressure with a given charge of powder.
A second group of rifles, rifles with the higher twist rates, either 50 or 45 cal, will shoot the 200 grain Lehigh with outstanding success.
A goal of Lehigh is to provide the best possible performance from each of their bullets, but this performance must be achieved within the normal equipment ranges of the hunter.
I do want to take the time to mention the .452/250 grn. Lehigh is an excellent alternative for the 50 cal. 1/28 twist muzzleloader.[/align]

[bronko22000]

Grouse - thanks for the input. And if I elect to try these bullets in the future, I will keep this data in mind. I know you have put a lot of field testing in on these bullets and gathered a bunch of data and I for one appreciate the effort even if I decide not to use these.

[Old/New]

This explains the issues I am having in my Accura (1:28). I closed the groups to about 2" at 100 yds. when I upped the charge of 209 to 115gr. To get better accuracy with this bullet I would have to push them harder it seems.

[sabotloader]

Old/New

All of this follows along with my experiance also. When I shot the 200 Lehigh in the White (1/24) with 110 grains T7-2f - I shot some really tight groups.

Earlier this week I took the Triumph out for another shake down shooting. The tightest of the three 100 yards groups with the 200 grain Lehigh I shot was 2 1/8". When i switched to the 250's and even the .458/300 Sierra's the groups tighted to an 1" with out a problem.

As Tom indicates the 200 remains a viable bullet to a lot of folks that have the higher twist rate bores or have a 45 cal ML and step the powder up to shoot 2300 fps.

[Old/New]

Sabotloader,
I have not tried the Lehigh 200gr in my PH. But it appears your Triumph doesn't shoot them any better than my 45 Accura. So...do you think it's a wast of time to try different powders/sabots in the Accura? I have only used BH209 & light blue CR sabots as well as light blue smoothe sabots.

I may try shooting them in my PH. What sabots do you use for the 200gr Lehigh in a 50cal?

[sabotloader]

Old/New

I have not tried the Lehigh 200gr in my PH. But it appears your Triumph doesn't shoot them any better than my 45 Accura.

A couple thoughts... I am surprised that the Accura in 45 cal is a 1/28. You probably have the best opportunity to achieve real accuracy in the 45 than the 50 cal PH. I noted that you did shoot it with 115 grains of BH and I am thinking it would not take much more to achieve the 2300 fps. The 45 bore produces slighly more pressure than does the 50 cal bore with the same amount of powder. Next because the 200 Lehigh is so light - it really gets out the barrel quickly and reduces the efficiency of BH. I believe that Tom is shooting 130 grains and possibly the MMP Tan sabot.

So...do you think it's a wast of time to try different powders/sabots in the Accura? I have only used BH209 & light blue CR sabots as well as light blue smoothe sabots.

It is possible that a non- crush rib sabot like the MMP tan sabot might produce better results as it might provide a tighter gas seal - increasing velocity.

I may try shooting them in my PH. What sabots do you use for the 200gr Lehigh in a 50cal?

When I was shooting the 200 Lehigh's I was using the Blue MMP 40/50 cal sabot. I would never discourage you from trying the PH, as each gun has their differences - it just might fly out of it very well. The other day when I was shooting the Triumph I really wish i had been smart enough to use a Harvester Blue CR - who knows that might have worked. I really hope to try it later this week.

To be honest with you, because I only shoot 50 cal ML's I think I am going to move to the 250. When I shot them a couple of weeks ago - I was shooting the 200 grain Lehigh's at 2000-2050 fps with a 110 grains of BH-209. When I switched to the 250's the velocity only dropped to 1975 and the accuracy was right where it should be. For me, here in Idaho the 250's will work way good.

I will try the new 185's when they get out, but I have not done any Ballistic information calculations on them at all.

[Grouse45]

The website is updated

http://lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=23

[Grouse45]

Since these bullet didn't stabilize in my 1/30 twist Knight Disc Elite 45. I decided to try them in my 1/24 twist 50cal Savage with BH209. The first target is with a Harvester Blue crush rib sabot. This sabot loaded way to easy in my Savage.



The next group i switched to the Blue MMP and upped the powder a little. The Blue MMP loaded a bit firmer and i was more comfortable with the MMP sabot.

[Buck Hunter 1]

Has anyone shot these out of a Pro Hunter yet? Guys, can we get a chart together showing the bullets, loads, sabots used. It is kinda hard to keep uo here w/ all that is being thrown around.

[Old/New]

ORIGINAL: sabotloader

Old/New

A couple thoughts... I am surprised that the Accura in 45 cal is a 1/28. You probably have the best opportunity to achieve real accuracy in the 45 than the 50 cal PH. I noted that you did shoot it with 115 grains of BH and I am thinking it would not take much more to achieve the 2300 fps. The 45 bore produces slighly more pressure than does the 50 cal bore with the same amount of powder. Next because the 200 Lehigh is so light - it really gets out the barrel quickly and reduces the efficiency of BH. I believe that Tom is shooting 130 grains and possibly the MMP Tan sabot.

It is possible that a non- crush rib sabot like the MMP tan sabot might produce better results as it might provide a tighter gas seal - increasing velocity.

When I was shooting the 200 Lehigh's I was using the Blue MMP 40/50 cal sabot. I would never discourage you from trying the PH, as each gun has their differences - it just might fly out of it very well. The other day when I was shooting the Triumph I really wish i had been smart enough to use a Harvester Blue CR - who knows that might have worked. I really hope to try it later this week.

To be honest with you, because I only shoot 50 cal ML's I think I am going to move to the 250. When I shot them a couple of weeks ago - I was shooting the 200 grain Lehigh's at 2000-2050 fps with a 110 grains of BH-209. When I switched to the 250's the velocity only dropped to 1975 and the accuracy was right where it should be. For me, here in Idaho the 250's will work way good.

I will try the new 185's when they get out, but I have not done any Ballistic information calculations on them at all.

Ok...Turkey season is here (May 1 in NY). While up at the hunt camp I tried the 200gr Lehighs out of the 45 Accura using the tan MMP sabots. Much tighter fit. Shooting 120gr of BH209 the first 2 shots were touching. The third was 1.5" to the right but I believe that was me. The mayflies were horrendous. I had to escape. Did not even bother to take a picture the bugs were so bad. There is some potential though. I believe the way to go may be the 185gr bullets that will be coming out.

Turkey picture to come.