I thought I"™d share this, hopefully someone will find use for it.
I shot this group several months ago with my 700ML. I don't mind swabbing between shots. However, there are times when I"™m coyote huntin"™ that I"™d like to be able to reload quickly before the second one gets away So I wanted to see what kind of accuracy I could get without swabbing.
The plan was to shoot 3 w/out swabbing then shoot 3 swabbing in between shots w/1 alcohol and 1 dry patch and compare. I fouled the barrel then I shot 3. As you can see they were all over the place. That group measured 1 5/8. So then I cleaned the barrel real well and shot 3 swabbing in between shots. Those turned out nicely- and yes I was afraid to shoot again
As you can see, there is quite a bit difference in accuracy between the two. I"™m sure not every gun is affected by swabbing like this but from my experience the majority are. I can"™t really explain why the ones shot on the fouled barrel shot higher though.
50 Yards
700ML
110g 777 2f
200g XTP
Blue Harvester Crush Rib
Kleanbore Primer
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"Yes, well, I’m polymerized tree sap and you’re an inorganic adhesive, so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction is reflected off of me, returns to its original trajectory and adheres to you." - Sheldon Cooper
First...You are a fast loading son of a gun to shoot, reload and kill that other coyote...
Second...The reason the fouled shots hit high is because of the residue left in the barrel...This slows the bullet down and allows the recoil to kick the bullet higher...
As your gun shows, part of the equation of accuracy in a muzzleloader is consistancy...A clean barrel is part of this...
First...You are a fast loading son of a gun to shoot, reload and kill that other coyote...
Second...The reason the fouled shots hit high is because of the residue left in the barrel...This slows the bullet down and allows the recoil to kick the bullet higher...
It doesn't happen often that I can get two, but I've tried a couple times
That makes sense about the residue... Thanks forthe insightnchawkeye
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"Yes, well, I’m polymerized tree sap and you’re an inorganic adhesive, so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction is reflected off of me, returns to its original trajectory and adheres to you." - Sheldon Cooper
The only powder that shoots better with out swabbing is Blackhorn 209. I have quite a number of guns and the only other ones that shoot well with out swabbing every shot is traditional with BB. Lee
I like to try to recreate the bore condition that I will have when hunting. I shoot BH209 so I don't need to swab but when I practice I am shooting to better my hunting load. I start by running several try patches to get as much oil out of the bore as I can. Then I run an alcohol patch to disolve what remaining oil there is. Then a few more dry patches. Then I foul the bore with one primer. Then dump the powder in and then the sabot/bullet. I know it probably doesn't make that big of a different, but I ensure that one of the pedal openings on the sabot is at directly 12 o'clock when loading. I do this every time so in theory the sabot will be in the same position every time I load. After that I go ahead and take my shot. If the shot isn't dead center, I adjust my scope to make it dead center. That's the condition my bore is going to be in when hunting so that's the bore condition I practice with.
After I've fired I clean the bore again. I run a patch with Hoppes, then a dry patch, then flip that dry patch and run it again. Then another patch with Hoppes, then another dry patch, flit it over and run it again. Then another dry patch, flip it over and run it again. The I pull the breech plug and clean it. And then I fire another fouling primer. I do that in between every shot to recreate hunting bore conditions as closely as possible. Ususally that second shot is pretty darn close to where the first one impacted.
__________________ Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my handgun...
The only powder that shoots better with out swabbing is Blackhorn 209. I have quite a number of guns and the only other ones that shoot well with out swabbing every shot is traditional with BB. Lee
Sabotloader has proven that you can shoot BH out of the 700MLs but I'm just not comfortable with it yet. He must have a stronger spring in the firing pin than what I do. I still get too much blow back for my comfort. I can shoot 120g of 777 and not have an issue with blowback. But 100g of BH and it recocks the bolt and the primer comes to pieces and even once out of the action.
It will flat shoot 777 so I will just keep shooting it in the 700 and leave shooting BHto the Genesis.
__________________
"Yes, well, I’m polymerized tree sap and you’re an inorganic adhesive, so whatever verbal projectile you launch in my direction is reflected off of me, returns to its original trajectory and adheres to you." - Sheldon Cooper
I have tested this same thing with a number of different rifles and the results are very similar to yours. When I swab, slow down, and take my time, there is a dramatic increase in accuracy with the rifle.
__________________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
I like to try to recreate the bore condition that I will have when hunting. I shoot BH209 so I don't need to swab but when I practice I am shooting to better my hunting load. I start by running several try patches to get as much oil out of the bore as I can. Then I run an alcohol patch to disolve what remaining oil there is. Then a few more dry patches. Then I foul the bore with one primer. Then dump the powder in and then the sabot/bullet. I know it probably doesn't make that big of a different, but I ensure that one of the pedal openings on the sabot is at directly 12 o'clock when loading. I do this every time so in theory the sabot will be in the same position every time I load. After that I go ahead and take my shot. If the shot isn't dead center, I adjust my scope to make it dead center. That's the condition my bore is going to be in when hunting so that's the bore condition I practice with.
After I've fired I clean the bore again. I run a patch with Hoppes, then a dry patch, then flip that dry patch and run it again. Then another patch with Hoppes, then another dry patch, flit it over and run it again. Then another dry patch, flip it over and run it again. The I pull the breech plug and clean it. And then I fire another fouling primer. I do that in between every shot to recreate hunting bore conditions as closely as possible. Ususally that second shot is pretty darn close to where the first one impacted.
For my Omega using 777 I damp patch turn over and then dry patch and turn over, each shot at range. In field I rarely reload, but if I have too I put in 1 bore butter patch with not much bore butter on it, and turn it over and that is what I shoot for the 2nd shot. With Blackhorn 209, I just reload and do not swab or anything, rarely shoot over 2x per day, since 2 per day is limit. With Savage, I never swab, always keep my gun loaded and clean it 1/year. It is still loaded and I plan on shooting it today just to unload it.
General rule, if you can feel the resistence going down (gritty grindy sound), then accuracy will suffer, if everything is the same going down---i.e. nice and smooth, little resistence but a tight fit with quite a bit of force, that is just right. I have found the Crushed Rib sabot works well for me in my Savage with all .458 bullet, my theory is that the grooves in the side allow the residue in the barrel a place to go.I also like CR for Omega, but I did use the Barnes MZ supplied sabot and they worked well for 1st shot. In general I like the CR better from a residue pov for Blackhorn and smokeless, just my experience, but hopefully it makes sense. Consistency shot to shot is the name of the game, anything you can do in the swab/no swab department to make things more consistent is best.
Chap
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Chapman Gleason
Purcellville Va
http://www.the-gleasons.com
TNHagies
Should check with Sabot loader on this but if I remember correctly he uses a small mag rifle primer in a 2520 case on the adapted breach plug that Precision Rifle sells which also eliminates blow back.
I am interested in this myself as they have come up with a set up that uses large rifle primers, I may try that in my Omega my Triumph has no blow back any way so it is not needed there. Must make a choice between selling the Omega and buying an other Triumph for a back up or going to the case in breach plug method which is illegal here. Lee
To Swab Or Not To Swab?
So I wanted to see what kind of accuracy I could get without swabbing.
- and yes I was afraid to shoot again 
