Grouse45

This morning was testing of the 40cal 200grn bullets. The standard load was 115grns of BH209 and the light blue Harvester sabots. Of course the red plastic jackets and Federal 209A primers. Muzzleloader used was a 45cal Knight Disc Elite.

Yesterday i made sure the gun was on the paper at 50yds so there was no fussing today. Yesterday two bullets touched at 50yds so the gun and load showed some potential. All groups are shot at 102 yds today and three shot strings thru chrono were shot at 50yds do to range rules.

The first group was shot with the 200grn Shockwave. Pretty much the norm i dont measure groups. I know whats good enough for me when done.





As you can see this bullet shoots really well. I actually expected that with the 200grn SW. It has always ben very accurate in 50cal Muzzleloaders so why not in 45's.

The Muzzle velocity with the SW was as follows with 115grns of BH209.

1st shot- 2211 2nd shot-2199 3rd shot- 2189 average of= 2199 for three shots. http://lehighbullets.com/







Not bad at all. And pretty darn accurate. I have shot Deer with this bullet and it did okay. Of course alot better then Barnes, but nothing like a Parker BE, DeadCenter or even an XTP. This is what inspired me to get Dave from Lehigh to make a good 40cal 200grn bullet on game for me and others.

The next bullet was the 200grn Lehigh 40cal bullet. As you guys know i love these bullets as about as much as you can with out shooting something with them. I expected them to shoot in a differnt place fron the 200grn SW'S but they really didnt. Here is 10 Lehigh bullets shot into the same 3 shot group of the SW'S. Yes, no# 10 ruined the group but thats okay. Thats why i dont measure them.



As you can see this bullets shoots very well to. After the 10 shot group i moved over to the Chrono.

1st shot-2207 2nd shot-2200 3rd shot-2233 avg velocity was= 2213





http://lehighbullets.com/


I would say the slight velocity difference between the two is because the weight difference between bullets.


200grn Shockwave avg weight. 199.4
200grn Lehigh avg weight 198.3
I weighed 10 bullets of each on this bullet weight test, and divided by 10.

At the end of my range session i had 7- 200grn Lehigh bullets left. I think he sent me 75 of them. I decided to shoot 125grns of BH209 with the Lehigh bullet. Here is a four shot group. Not great but i might of held in two different places.





I saved three bullets to run thru the chrono.

1st shot- 2267 2nd shot- 2275 3rd shot- 2263 avg velocity was= 2268



http://lehighbullets.com/



Not bad at all. Actually getting near Smokeless speeds with a 200grn bullet. I need to see how much BH209 i can burn in a 45cal Disc Elite. I might be able to get to 140grns. Only the chrono will tell us that.

I need more bullets to. I want to test these thru the 50cal Muzzleloaders as well. This 200grn Lehigh is my favorite bullet so far. I just like everything about it.

Like i keep saying, the real test will be in the field. I think i will dedicate all animals shot in 2009 to Lehigh bullets. That's the best way to see how good they really are for me.

rt_con

Grouse.. Bad experience(s) withBarnes ?

I found them to shoot great out my Knights. I've only used the 250 Expanders on 3 whitetails. All were short range, complete pass-throughs. Resulting in a short run, with very good bloodtrails.

Grouse45

The expanders are probably Barnes best bullet for Deer. The others i have had no luck with at all.All Dead Deer with no blood trails and poor terminal performance.

gleason.chapman

I shot Barnes 300g Origonals in my Savage all year and they did fine, my conclusion is they are a bit too tough for whitetail, especially on close shots. This year I plan on shooting a Barnes 45/70 bullet, the 45843 TSX Flatnose in my Savage, they shot great with 44g of 5744, which is too dirty a powder for me now having shot 4198 all year and liking the way the 2nd, 3rd, .... shot fire with that powder--still have my gun loaded after about 2 months of inactivity and I think I shot about 4 or 6 deer with the Savage this year. I plan on working a load at about 53g, instead of 67g that I am currently shooting, I shot the Barnes Origonals at 67g all last year, much too hot for back east primary woods shooting. Open field Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Nebraska, Coloradosure great bullet for that distance, back east, nope, why kill my shoulder. Chap

gleason.chapman

Here is a picture of a TSX 45843 Flat Nose beside a .452 Barnes PBX pistol bullet (the big hollow point is the 45/70 bullet). Which bullets were you referring to when you say "poor terminal performance", with the Barnes? Also, not sure what you mean by dead and "poor terminal performance". Most people think:
Boom Flop is excellent, < 30 yards is very good, < 50 yards is good, 50 to 100 is fair, over 100 yards is poor and over 200 yards is crappy, over 400 yards (1/4 mile) is "get another bullet" especially for late evening hunts.

Are you talking TMZ at 30 and 50 yards, cause your gonna get "pencil thru" on broadside shots with any of the bullets designed to be long range (i.e. SW, SSW, TMZ, T-EZ, Red Hots, yata). I think we have to start talking <100 yard shooting and 150 to 200 yard long range shooting. Long range bullets are best shot at high shoulder for <100 to prevent pencil thru. Barnes MZ and Nosler Partitions are the perfect < 100 ML bullet and if sighted in 3" high at 100 are the perfect strorm for <=170 using regular scopes no BDC. Not pushin' your buttons, just trying to understand your thinking.
Chap

Grouse45

gleason.chapman,
I want a bullet that does it all. Forget long range short range bullets. Most people dont want to switch bullets hunting. Plus as we all know, you cant predict what wild game is going to do.

The best all around bullet i have used to date has been the 275grn Parker BE. It has proven to be a Superior Whitetail bullet at 25yds to 287yds. I have shot Deer, Turkey and pigs with this bullet. In Texas this past year two Deer klilled at just under 300yds. One ran 30yds Blood all over the place. The other dropped dead.

I make a point to go back to where the animal was shot to see how well the blood trail is for tracking purposes when there is no snow. The Barnes Originals, The Barnes 175grn Red Hots, The 195 red hots are bullets that i wont ever use again on Deer. The Barnes original would make a good Elk bullet if pushed fast enough to expand.

There are people who love Barnes bullets, that why they shoot them. After a few kills by me, and several other by friends i elect no thanks.

I am working with Lehigh to get that all around bullet. Right now they have about as good as it gets at 150yds and under to the best of my Knowledge. I hope to shoot a couple pigs to confirm that soon. In the field results are the best in my opinion.

heinz57

oh boy here we go again ..HORNADYSST250 GR i have shot deer with no blood trail ,so i wanted to get the BARNES TMZ for this years deer season ,they are supposed to open up like a mushroom and leave a good blood trail ..after reading ur posting i almost fell on my ass ..i know what shoots great on the range ..but i want a hunting bullet with a good blood trail ,am i asking too much ?????? heinz57 alias black powder

spaniel

You're not going to get one clear answer, I've killed a few dozen deer with the 200gr SW and have had no problems with "pencil thru" at any range, never had one run far enough that I had to blood trail it but when I have bothered to look there was plenty of blood. Never recovered one under 80 yards but good-sized exit wounds.

If you are really concerned with expansion, shoot an all-lead hollowpoint like a Precision Rifle Keith Nose. Even then there are no guarantees, I once had one of those practically take a lung out the far side and the deer still ran 200+ yds (because I only got one lung).

Grouse45

A 250grn Hornady XTP will end all your worries and save you money. Trust me on this. What kind of ML do you use and your favorite load?

heinz57

i have a T/C ENCORE .50 CAL. i use only T7 pellets [2 pellets] and don't want to shoot lose powder [but that is just me] anyway getting back to the perfect hunting bullet if i look at the BARNES bullet on they're site everything looks perfect ..i included a pic ,to show u the TMZ . in ur opinion does the BARNES realy open up like that or is it marketing ????

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