What is a CRUD-RING

Breechplug · 01-19-2009, 07:02 PM

I have been ML Hunting for 20+ years and have never heard of a crud-ring. What is it, what causes it, and how do you prevent it? Also does it damage the barrel of you ML, can you clean it out, does the crud-ring cause accuracy problems or is it just a pain in the @#$%^ for barrels?

cayugad · 01-19-2009, 07:38 PM

Well a crud ring is an accumulation of burnt powder and residue. Normally it is found in front of the breech plug where the actual powder ignition under the projectile takes place. Depending on the powder you shoot the crud ring can be very hard in nature, to very soft or even non existent. It is also a residue of sorts or fowling. But the crud ring people worry about can cause loading problems if left unattended. To remove it, you simply swab the bore with a slightly damp patch. It will remove the fowling and crud ring from the barrel. This helps the loading of the next round.

sabotloader · 01-19-2009, 07:48 PM

Breechplug

Underclocked is the inventor of the term but not the problem. Many-Many people that shoot T7 get this bit of fouling just above the breech plug at or near the top of the powder. This ring of fouling will not allow a follow up loading to get to the correct height.

Quote:

One of the biggest and most common complaints about shooting T7 is that it builds or cause a "crud ring" so named by Underclocked. In some guns the ring is so hard it is almost impossible to get rid of. It will not allow the proper loading of the next shot.

A lot of folks have to damp patch after each shot with T7 to clean the residue and allow the loading of the next shot.

I have always thought for years the ring was caused by the heat and pressure created T7 having a reaction (chemical) or not with something in the bore or the pores of the bore.

I am thinking the new conditioner might help reduce or eliminate the ring and the necessity of constant patching. Although running a patch for me is a good thing - it slows me down.

Here should also say that I have never been real suseptible to the 'crud ring' and I to was a user of BB in all of my barrels. I think if it is applied correctly it does reduce fouling, but I would also agree with other - it should not be trusted for long term storgage in a high humidity area. I stop using BB a couple of years ago when the blue T17 patches came out. They apply the natural lubein a much more even application in all circumstances.

It is a widely held belief that you can not 'season' a modern ML barrel - I also agree I hate that term because everyone instintivly thinks of the old cast iron pans.

All metals can be 'conditioned' and I believe the the new Montana X-treme bore conditioner might be doing that, but I still am testing and trying to detirmine that. Cayugad is also running a concurrent test. Dave has made several observations that do follow the points I have found. His last test with conicals is something I have not tested but I am really encouraged.

If you look at my last post... "another round @ the Dinger Farm' you will see the results of my last test round. I used a total of 5 patches for the whole shoot.

Really not much of a point here but I also did treat my trap gun last week and shot 100 rounds on Saturday and 150 rounds on Sunday. The choke held up great - not the normal amount of plastic fouling hung up in there.

This week I am switching to another ML a 50 Cal Renegade shooting PRB's to see if I can get simular results.

SWThomas · 01-20-2009, 05:11 AM

I use BH209 so I have no idea about this crud-ring you speak of...

gregrn43 · 01-20-2009, 06:00 AM

I have never had a crud ring black pwd or pryodex P before either.

cayugad · 01-20-2009, 06:12 AM

Actually all powders make a crud ring of sorts. They are just in different places and different degrees of hardness. All a crud ring is basically is the fowling produced by the ignition of the powder. Sometimes, like in the case of Triple Seven in some rifles, this fowling is very hard in nature and feels like a bump. For a better way of explaining it. A moist patch will scrub that right off when swabbing. So if you swab you very well might not ever feel a crud ring.

In the case of Pyrodex RS or P there is a crud ring. Its just spread out. Swab the bore and you will see the crud. It just does not ring up per say. The fowling is normally softer in nature too. BUT when you swab the bore you are technically taking out the crud ring in the form of fowling. You know, all that black junk on the patch.

APP and others like that.. ever see the white ring near the muzzle of the rifle. And feel that white ring. That is unburnt powder sticking to the barrel. Just in a different place in the bore and different consistency.

BlackHorn 209 might be a powder without a true crud ring of sort. BUT there is a black fowling in the bore. And with Black Horn it takes solvent to remove that, not a simple swab solution. Although alcohol will take it out if you want to swab between shot. Also if you say crud ring.. hows your breech plug? When I shot that powder the accumulation of hard to remove crud in the breech plug made cleaning that rifle just about as time consuming as with other powders. I swear that breech plug took me about ten minutes to get it to MY standards.

Now I am fussy. And when in no hurry have been know to take a half an hour per rifle when I clean them. But when I am done, you can rest assured there is no sign of fowling, crud ring, or anything. Just a smooth mirror like bore, well protected with a quality oil product.

SWThomas · 01-20-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cayugad

Also if you say crud ring.. hows your breech plug? When I shot that powder the accumulation of hard to remove crud in the breech plug made cleaning that rifle just about as time consuming as with other powders. I swear that breech plug took me about ten minutes to get it to MY standards.

I hear ya. Some hard stuff does accumulate on the breech plug. That's why the BP is the first thing I remove. Then I place it along with the breech assembly (firing pin, breech block) in a clean parts bath to let it soak while I clean the rest of the rifle. By the time I get to those parts, the hard stuff is pretty well softened up. A large majority of it is easily removed with a rag and some q-tips. The rest is easily disposed of with an 1/8" drill bit and a .22 bronze bore brush. Very, very easy.

As for the rest of the breech area that accumulates primer fouling... Some spray solvent on a q-tip makes small work of that. Regular q-tips suck! I use the q-tips I get from work on my guns. They're military hospital grade cotton swabs that are tightly spun on a wooden stick. Perks of working in an Armory.

lemoyne · 01-20-2009, 07:27 AM

I have shot every powder available for muzzle loading, the only powder that ever made crudring was 777 the rest are all loadable for at least 3 shots and with Blackhorn there is no limit. I believe a person should clean a gun after they shoot it and I clean my smokeless guns to as soon as I am done shooting. But I have heard it said that you and leave it for weeks with no problem,personally I would not. Lee

Breechplug · 01-20-2009, 07:41 AM

Thank's cayugad or is it cayuqad? You explained it very well. I guess we all actually have some sort of a crudring, just more for some than others. As for the breechplug being hard to clean, I too have had to spend a-lot of time cleaning it. But one time I tried something, I took a very small amount of BB and applied it to the end of the breechplug, not plugging the fire channel. Then after an outing of shooting when I went to clean it, the fouling on it just wiped off. So since then I have been doing this with no problems at all. And you also mentioned not to use BB when you store you ML for long periods of time with high humidity. Well I swab the barrel's of all My ML's and shotguns prior to storage and have never had a problem when the next season came around and I inspected the barrela after removal of the BB. What problems have you noticed with storage of guns that had BB applied to them in high humidity, was it rust? Thank's for your reply, I learned much. Ron

spaniel · 01-20-2009, 08:20 AM

My personal experience is with pyrodex there is a crud "cylinder" over an inch or two at the bottom of the barrel, does not really affect loading for a few shots but you can feel it if you run a wet patch down. With 777 in my Omegas, I got a true crud ring right where the seated sabot sits on the powder. If I did not get enough spit on a patch and just rammed it down there after the shot, it often jammed the jag in the barrel and I had to pull the plug to get it out.

I use the 25ACP conversion which does an 80% job of eliminating the problem, and just make sure I run a decent spit patch down the barrel in 3-4 short strokes so it doesn't have a chance to get stuck. End of all problems with 777, and my breech plug is clean in 15 sec.