Well, I finally got to go out and shoot my Rem Genesis and my Winchester Apex. This is the first time I have ever shot a muzzleloader at all and man am I stoked. I enjoyed shooting both rifles even though both shoot quite a bit differently. Didn't really do any target work since I was basically trying to figure this all out. Between my son and myself we probably put about 20 rounds through each gun. I hope to get out to do some refining of my load selection in the next few weeks but thought I would share a few things with you that I came across to see if y'all had any suggestions.
Most of tthe bullet/sabot combinations that I tried worked pretty will but the Hornady XTP Mags (both 240 and 300) were extremely hard to load. In fact I had to take the breech plug out on two separate occasions to force the bullet back out the muzzle. Before you ask or comment, I was cleaning the barrel pretty good between each shot and the first one that go stuck was in a clean barrel on my Genesis that had never been shot before...ever. Come to think of it, my Winchester loaded them easier than the Remington. Is this a common occurance in muzzleloading? If so, what can one do to correct this. The Shockwaves that I used loaded pretty easy. Knights were good too.
So far I have just bought the bullets that come packaged with the sabots. I have been looking around the internet and it seems like it would be considerably cheaper to buy .45 handgun bullets in bulk and then order sabots separately. Do ml shooters commonly do this and if so, where is a good place on the internet to buy the bullets and sabots separately. Are there any specs that I need to pay attention to when buying this way?
While shooting I took my breech plug out about every 7-10 shots because I wanted to see the fouling on the plug itself just so I had an idea. If I waited 10 shots I found that the bp was pretty hard to remove but after cleaning and reinstalling it all was well. I was just wondering if one should make a practice of removing the BP while at the range or will I be able to remove it without damage if I wait until I get home to remove it if I shoot 20-30 rounds? If I remove it at the range, how many shots should I have between removal and cleaning?
I know that these may seem like elementary questions but like I said, I was a muzzleloading virgin before this weekend so I am looking for anything to help. I can see where this would be extremely addicting but also extremely expensive. I was shooting pyrodex pellets and am pretty sure that I will switch to a powder for the cost savings if nothing else. Again, any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Welcome. I have a few suggetions and I know others will as well. First is the Breach plug issue. Do not take it out at the range unless you have antisieze with you to apply to the threads. Otherwise you may have a real problem getting it out. Some of us use a wrap of teflon plumber's tape then the antisieze. When removing the BP, if it starts getting tight, try turning it back in a bit then out again until removed.
As for the bullet/sabot question. Many of us also use pistol bullets. Mostly XTPs and Gold Dots. In my 50 cal Genesis I use either the 300 gr shockwaves with the yellow tip. or 300 gr 44 cal XTPs and the Harvester Green Crush Rib sabot. The Crush Rib allows for easier loading. Some use the 45 Cal (.452") XTP with the black Crush Rib sabot.
__________________ PLEASE NOTE THAT DUE TO THE RISING COST IN AMMO PRICES I WILL NO LONGER BE FIRING A WARNING SHOT.
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Welcome to the insanity, or is that semi-insanity.
If your not using some kind of antiseize or teflon tape on your breach plugsthey will get stuck. I use the regular automotive anti-seize that you can buy most anywhere and have had long range sessions with 40 to 50 shots using 777 powder and not had any issue getting the plug out when cleaning. I highly recommend using it.
Something you have already noticed is the fact that each gun is an entityto itself. The bore of each gun will have it's own characteristics and some will load easier than others with the same bullet/sabot combination. Some of us "slug" the bore of our guns to determine the exact diameter so we can choose the proper "fit" of the components we load. One way to slug your bore is to take a lead conical and bump the diameter up by using a hammer to tap the conical's base to swedge it out, then push it through the bore and out the other end to get a perfect impression of the bore and grooves in the barrel. Then measure both the bore and groove diameters with a caliper or micrometer. This info will be helpful in choosing both sabot and conical loads for the gun.
Others on here have specs on different sabots and their loaded diameters so I will let them fill you in on those.
Good luck and be safe.
__________________
David
Only one man in a thousand is a leader of men -- the other 999 follow women.
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Most of tthe bullet/sabot combinations that I tried worked pretty will but the Hornady XTP Mags (both 240 and 300) were extremely hard to load. In fact I had to take the breech plug out on two separate occasions to force the bullet back out the muzzle. Before you ask or comment, I was cleaning the barrel pretty good between each shot and the first one that go stuck was in a clean barrel on my Genesis that had never been shot before...ever. Come to think of it, my Winchester loaded them easier than the Remington. Is this a common occurance in muzzleloading? If so, what can one do to correct this. The Shockwaves that I used loaded pretty easy. Knights were good too. In my Remington Genesis, I shoot a Harvester Crushed Rib sabot. These are a little thinner and make loading a lot easier.
So far I have just bought the bullets that come packaged with the sabots. I have been looking around the internet and it seems like it would be considerably cheaper to buy .45 handgun bullets in bulk and then order sabots separately. Do ml shooters commonly do this and if so, where is a good place on the internet to buy the bullets and sabots separately. Are there any specs that I need to pay attention to when buying this way? Most of us shoot bulk bullets. I personally recommed the .44 caliber 300 grain Hornady XTP's that are .430 in diameter. Then get some of the .430 GREEN Harvester Crushed Rib sabots for the .430 diameter bullets. The .44 caliber just seem to shoot better then the others for me. My Genesis shoots them real good. You can order them from many online stores like Midway USA, MidSouth Shooters Supply, Natchez Shooters Supply, Cabela's, Graf's & Sons.. many of those stores carry all the things you need.
While shooting I took my breech plug out about every 7-10 shots because I wanted to see the fouling on the plug itself just so I had an idea. If I waited 10 shots I found that the bp was pretty hard to remove but after cleaning and reinstalling it all was well. I was just wondering if one should make a practice of removing the BP while at the range or will I be able to remove it without damage if I wait until I get home to remove it if I shoot 20-30 rounds? If I remove it at the range, how many shots should I have between removal and cleaning? I take White Teflon Plumbers tape and wrap the plug first. Cover all the threads. Then go to a Wal Mart or Automotive storeand get a tube of Slick 50 One Grease. Smear a nice even coat of that as well on top of the tape over the threads. Now put the breech plug in the rifle. But when you get to where it is finger tight, do not force it. Just hardly snug it up. As long as the action will close and the primer will fire. What this will do is after you shoot 30 rounds say.. you go home and immediately take that plug out. If its a long drive from the range home, take the breech plug tool and take it out before you head home and just put it in a zip lock plastic bag that has a wet paper towel inside. When you get home the fowling will come right off that plug with an old tooth brush.
I know that these may seem like elementary questions but like I said, I was a muzzleloading virgin before this weekend so I am looking for anything to help. I can see where this would be extremely addicting but also extremely expensive. I was shooting pyrodex pellets and am pretty sure that I will switch to a powder for the cost savings if nothing else. Again, any suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Pyrodex RS or Triple Seven 2f in loose form are great powders. Be sure to get a volume powder measure to measure out your charges.
__________________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, a total wreck, screaming Yahoo, with a big smile on your face."
Well, I finally got to go out and shoot my Rem Genesis and my Winchester Apex. This is the first time I have ever shot a muzzleloader at all and man am I stoked. I enjoyed shooting both rifles even though both shoot quite a bit differently. Didn't really do any target work since I was basically trying to figure this all out. Between my son and myself we probably put about 20 rounds through each gun. I hope to get out to do some refining of my load selection in the next few weeks but thought I would share a few things with you that I came across to see if y'all had any suggestions.
Most of tthe bullet/sabot combinations that I tried worked pretty will but the Hornady XTP Mags (both 240 and 300) were extremely hard to load. In fact I had to take the breech plug out on two separate occasions to force the bullet back out the muzzle. Before you ask or comment, I was cleaning the barrel pretty good between each shot and the first one that go stuck was in a clean barrel on my Genesis that had never been shot before...ever. Come to think of it, my Winchester loaded them easier than the Remington. Is this a common occurance in muzzleloading? If so, what can one do to correct this. The Shockwaves that I used loaded pretty easy. Knights were good too.
So far I have just bought the bullets that come packaged with the sabots. I have been looking around the internet and it seems like it would be considerably cheaper to buy .45 handgun bullets in bulk and then order sabots separately. Do ml shooters commonly do this and if so, where is a good place on the internet to buy the bullets and sabots separately. Are there any specs that I need to pay attention to when buying this way?
While shooting I took my breech plug out about every 7-10 shots because I wanted to see the fouling on the plug itself just so I had an idea. If I waited 10 shots I found that the bp was pretty hard to remove but after cleaning and reinstalling it all was well. I was just wondering if one should make a practice of removing the BP while at the range or will I be able to remove it without damage if I wait until I get home to remove it if I shoot 20-30 rounds? If I remove it at the range, how many shots should I have between removal and cleaning?
I know that these may seem like elementary questions but like I said, I was a muzzleloading virgin before this weekend so I am looking for anything to help. I can see where this would be extremely addicting but also extremely expensive. I was shooting pyrodex pellets and am pretty sure that I will switch to a powder for the cost savings if nothing else. Again, any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Powder, get loose, but it local since no haz materials ship fee of $20/order. Walmart has their stuff on sale, buy all the 777 or Pyrodex loose you will need for 1 year. Warning it sounds like your got the bug, so better buy at least 5 maybe 7, it won't go bad. Use windshild washer fluid as a cleaner. Readmost of the articles over here on cleaning, bullets yata:
Finally got to shoot my ML's
