OK, I'll Come Clean - The Blackhorn Monster Got Me

Semisane · 12-31-2008, 04:02 PM

Yeah, yeah! I bought a canister of BH at Cabala's when I got the X7. Just could not stop wondering if it would turn the 2" grouping Mustang into a one-hole shooter. So last Sunday I gave it a try.

My Mustang's breech plugs is converted to .25 ACP ignition and I use CCI small pistol primers for shooting T7, Pyrodex and GOEX. But I'veseen Sabotloader's posts indicating some successwith BH and CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers. So I picked up a packof those and primedfifteenACP cases with them for the test.

Starting off with a squeaky clean barrel, I dropped 105 grains of BH down the Mustang's bore, followed by a 300 grain Gold Dot in a Harvester short black sabot. I put a target out at 100 yards and primed with one of my regular small pistol primers. Pulled the trigger - nothing. Took out the shot primer, checked the bullet seating (it hadn't moved), re-primed with another small pistol primer, pulled the trigger and she went BANG after a significant delay. Recoil was "different" than what I get with other powders, more like my 45-70 with smokeless powder. BH smoke smells awful!

Checked the target and was pleased to see a bullet hole right about where my standard T7 hunting load would have hit. I was pretty sure I had held steady through the firing delay, and it seemed that I did.

Wiped the bore with both sides of one alcohol patch and the dirty patch looked very similar to what I get withT7. Loaded up again with the same load, but put a small rifle magnum primer in the breech. Took another shot and had another hang fire - very noticeable, but not as long as the first one.

I took three more shots with the small rifle magnum primers - wiping with one alcohol patch between shots -and had another failure to fire on the fourth shot and noticeable hang fire on every shot.

Here's the target.

Those four shots into an inch and a half(including shot #1 on a clean bore) match the best groups I can get with other powders in this gun. It may not be true, but I'll attribute the oneout-of-group shot to my movement during a hang fire.

Well, to make the story shorter, I'll just say that I shot another five-shot group with the same load, but wiped with one side of a dry patch between shots instead of the alcohol patch. Once again I had a noticeable delay with every shot, and had two failures to fire.

Here's the target.

That group looks just like one of my T7 or GOEX groups, but I have to admit the hang fires were getting to me and may account somewhat for the size of the group.

I would like to have shot a five-shot group without wiping between shots, butI had only three small rifle magnum primers left. So I thought I would try some of the red Harvester crush rib sabots for smokeless powder because theyare a little tighter in the Mustang's bore. Had one failure to fire and two hang fires with them. Recoil was a little stiffer than with the other loads.

Here's the target.

I cleaned the bore fully after the BH shooting. Three very wet alcohol patches, followed by a dry patch seemed to have it totally clean. You guys who are shooting BH really need to try 91% alcohol for cleaning. The breech area was hardly smudged - less than what I get with other powders. I wiped it off with an alcohol patch.

I then switched over to one of my standard hunting loads, 105 grains of T7 FFFG under the 300 GD. Took five shots and got about what I always get. Here's the target.

So, what the heck do I do now. Use up the rest of the BH in the X7, or get another breech plug for the Mustang and see what happens with 209 primers?

Oh! One more thing. After I shot that last target with T7 I cleaned the bore with three very wet alcohol patches and a dry patch - just likeI did afterthe BH - and it was perfectly clean. I wiped the bore with a heavily oiledpatchand didn't get around to pulling the breech plug until today (three days after the shoot).TheTeflon taped plug came out easily, as it always does. The face of the plug was covered with soft oily soot that wiped right off with a paper towel. The primer pocket came perfectly clean with one alcohol dipped Q-Tip.Pushed the tip of a round tooth pick into the flash hole from the front and back endand it was perfectly clean also. I sure can't fault BH forbreech plug clean up.

MOEncore · 12-31-2008, 04:29 PM

OK.... you got me. I have "resisted" trying the Blackhorn powder because I also use the .25acp and since I had not heard anything about how it works with this combo I havent been willing to try it. I have my Encore so dialed in I thought why try anything else. I guess now I can go buy some since the .25 acp "can" make it go bang and see if I can get that hole into hole more consistant!

Semisane · 12-31-2008, 04:37 PM

You might have better luck than I did with the hangfires MO. I don't know what the Encore breech plug looks like, but the one on my Mustang has a long hole from the bottom of the primer pocket to the face of the plug - 3/8" exactly.

cayugad · 12-31-2008, 04:42 PM

well its about time!!!

All joking aside. Its a good powder but I would hit it with nothing less then a 209 primer. That is some good shooting there though. It will be interesting to see what it does in your Omega.

revpilot · 12-31-2008, 04:49 PM

Semisane,

That first group is awesome with hangfires,

can you imagine if it went bang the right way everytime. I know if you shoot that through your X7, you will be very satisfied. Ive gotten several 3 shot groups at 100yds that are just one big ragged hole with the encore,and the knight LRH. Like yourself i have not had any problems with breech plug build up or cleanup like others have stated. Ive tested cci209m, cci209,federal 209a, and accuracy was all the same. With BH209 theres no reason to have the hassle of 25acp, of repriming them, when the 209s work so well it.

sabotloader · 12-31-2008, 05:36 PM

Semi

I wish you might try the same thing again with the Mustang and a HPH-24 - I think it might be slightly tighter than the Short Black Harvester.

Have you ever tried to load a HPH-12 in the Mustang? It seems to me that the bore of the Mustang is larger than the a standard .502

From my limited experiance with BH, because it is a smokeless/progressive burning powder - you must have a fairly tight sabot/projectile fit to prevent 'hangfires' + I think it is important to compress the load.

When I shot BH from the Omega (.502) with a 25ACP - I was using a snug fitting 24 and both small rifle and small rifle mag primers... I did get a couple of 'hangfires' with the 400 primer - but things worked very well with the 450 primers. I also did not swab between shots at all - that little bit of fouling certainly helps the tight fitting sabot.

Rock Fish · 12-31-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: revpilot

Semisane,

That first group is awesome with hangfires,

can you imagine if it went bang the right way everytime. I know if you shoot that through your X7, you will be very satisfied. Ive gotten several 3 shot groups at 100yds that are just one big ragged hole with the encore,and the knight LRH. Like yourself i have not had any problems with breech plug build up or cleanup like others have stated. Ive tested cci209m, cci209,federal 209a, and accuracy was all the same. With BH209 theres no reason to have the hassle of 25acp, of repriming them, when the 209s work so well it.

I hope your right. I just received 2 containers of BH and 1000 CCI 209M primers today. As soon as the weather clears I'm giving it a try.

gleason.chapman · 12-31-2008, 06:08 PM

I think if ya shoot that in your Omega wtih a 209 you will be very pleased. It shoot well for me in my Omega, with 100g of BH, Barnes MZ 300g, Federal Primer.
Chap

Semisane · 12-31-2008, 06:23 PM

You might have something there Sabotloader. I justchecked the"Sabot Experiment" I did withthe Mustang in Sept. `07, usingthe 300 grain GD bulletwith different sabots.

My notes on the targets show the following:

HPH-3P-EZ - Loads very easily, thumb and one finger on ramrod.
Harvester Crush Ribs - Loads easy, one hand steady push.
Harvester Short - Loads firm, two hands steady push.
Harvester Long - Loads firm, two hands steady push.
HPH24 - Loads snug, one long firm push, both hands.
HPH12 - Very tight loading, two hands hard push.

When I shot those two red Smokeless Crush Rib sabots with BH they would have rated about the same as the HPH12s.

I suspect the long flame channel on the Mustang breech plug is the problem. The plug, with a primer inserted, is 1 1/8" from the rear of the primer to the face of the plug, and the plug has a flat face (no dish). Does anyone know how this compares to the length of other plugs?

gleason.chapman · 12-31-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Semisane

You might have something there Sabotloader. I justchecked the"Sabot Experiment" I did withthe Mustang in Sept. `07, usingthe 300 grain GD bulletwith different sabots.

My notes on the targets show the following:

HPH-3P-EZ - Loads very easily, thumb and one finger on ramrod.
Harvester Crush Ribs - Loads easy, one hand steady push.
Harvester Short - Loads firm, two hands steady push.
Harvester Long - Loads firm, two hands steady push.
HPH24 - Loads snug, one long firm push, both hands.
HPH12 - Very tight loading, two hands hard push.

When I shot those two red Smokeless Crush Rib sabots with BH they would have rated about the same as the HPH12s.

I suspect the long flame channel on the Mustang breech plug is the problem. The plug, with a primer inserted, is 1 1/8" from the rear of the primer to the face of the plug, and the plug has a flat face (no dish). Does anyone know how this compares to the length of other plugs?

This is what the BH 209 site says about the enclosed breech plug:

http://blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

How is your's shaped? Also I agree with Sabotloader, ya gotta compress your load with all your weight and also use VERY tight sabots, not one hand push down, that is too loose based on my Savage experiences.
Chap

Chap