Magnum XTP vs Gold dot

[keyshunter]

How much difference in penetrationcan I expect between a 300 gr XTP magnum and a 300 gr Gold dot. Last year I went from 240 gr xtp to 300 gr xtp and getbetter penetration, but not as much as I would like. Which of the above should be my next step?

Also, I know that they advertise the red crush rib as being for smokeless, but what is the actual difference between the black and the red crush rib sabot.

[SHulion]

I can't answer the XTP/Gold Dot question but maybe I can shed some light on the sabot question. The Harvester red crushed rib sabot measures a .508 with a .452 Shockwave/SST bullet. Compare this to the Harvester Black Crushed rib and the Harvester Short Black which both measure at .504 with the same bullet. So the red crushed will fit tighter in your barrel. I bought some that I was going to try but the Harvester short blacks shot so good that I didn't waste my time. All you can do is try them. What gun and sabot are you using right now?

[keyshunter]

I am using an Encore with 300 gr regular XTP and black crush rib.

[SHulion]

The xtp and the gold dot are both .452 bullets. I would think that you should be fine with the black crushed rib that you are alreay using. Assuming that you are already getting good accuracy. If not, then you might want to try the Harvester short black. I think the red crushed rib might be to tight in the encore. Like I said thoughI haven't tried them in mine yet. If you are using Bh209, that powder likes a tight fitting bullet/sabot combo. I think I need to get to the range and do some more shooting. I don't have any first hand knowledge about the Gold dot but everyone that talks about them on here says that it's a great bullet that holds together really well. I've heard them called the "poor man's Nosler Partition".

[bronko22000]

My goodness man what are you shooting that you don't get enough penetration with a 300 gr Magnum XTP? What load are you using. Seems to me that a 300 gr 50 cal with 80 gr or more of FFg should blow right through any whitetail alive unless maybe you are shooting him lengthwise. Even then it should do enough damage to drop it on the spot.

[sabotloader]

keyshunter

How much difference in penetrationcan I expect between a 300 gr XTP magnum and a 300 gr Gold dot. Last year I went from 240 gr xtp to 300 gr xtp and getbetter penetration, but not as much as I would like. Which of the above should be my next step?

I can only tell you of my experiances with both bullets, actually 3 bullets.
The XTP Mag and the XTP are both old school bullets on the copper and the lead are actually separate parts. The knurled ring around the copper are to help, only help, hold the lead in the copper jacket. The difference between the the Mag and the regular XTP is the velocity they are designed to shoot at. The Mag can be shot faster and remain together. If you look at the nose of the bullet you will see that the copper jacket is rolled over and into the nose.... This helps hold the bullet together a little bit longer @ contact (slows expsansion - increases penetration) also notice the Mag only has one knurled ring around the bullet. The XTP the copper does not roll over into the nose allowing quicker expansion at lower velocities and it has two knurled rings which actually help hold it together longer.

When I was shooting and testing these bullets - both of then could/would separate lead from copper - NOT ALWAYS - but sometimes. Often, especially at close range, I could find the copper under the hide on the entrance side while the lead continued across the animal - never exiting. I did not like, nor did I trust this performance.

With all that said the XTP's probably have harvested more game than any other bullet.

The Gold Dot - is a bonded bullet + it has controlled expansion to a certain point. It retains a weighted shank that creates continued penetration with the wings of the bullet expanded. The bullet will not pancake in an animal.

Here are some pics that might help show what I am talking about... These are expanded Gold Dots from torture test....





These are XTP's ran through the same torture test...

Also, I know that they advertise the red crush rib as being for smokeless, but what is the actual difference between the black and the red crush rib sabot.

The Red 'crush rib' will probably only fit a limited few ML bores - it is a pretty heavy thick sabot. You can look at this picture and see the various measurements.



Hope some of this helps....

[keyshunter]

Thanks for the help, Sabotloader and SHulion. I am going to go to the 300 gr Gold Dot with the black crush rib and see how they shoot in my gun. Of the4 deerI have shot with the regular 300 gr xtp, (all forward angled lung shots)3 have run 100 yards or more. None of the bullets held together or exited.No blood until within 10 yards or lessfrom where I found the deer.

[sabotloader]

keyshunter

Now this is just me, so it is not a law, but, I would suggest to you maybe look carefully at the Speer Gold Dot .452/250 grain bullet. That bullet is really suited for a thin skinned animal like a whitetail. It is easily very good to 175 yards, if your shots are likely longer than the 300 for sure.

I would also try the HPH-24 or Harvester short before going to the crush rib. I think these two will be just a bit snugger and not loose as much pressure as the 'cr' might if your bore is a little to large.

Here is a ballistic sheet on the GD with 100 grains of T7... You can see I sight in with a 6" point blank range so the bullet is about 2.5" high@ 100.

[Todd1700]

My goodness man what are you shooting that you don't get enough penetration with a 300 gr Magnum XTP?

My thoughts exactly. It says Martinsville Virginia under your name. Is that where you are hunting? If so, no deer that ever lived there should stop a 300 gr magnum XTP from any angle other than end to end. What are you guys doing, passing out flack jackets to the wildlife up there?

[keyshunter]

Todd and Bronko,
First, if you read my original post you shouldnotethat I used a STANDARD XTP 300, not magnum. Second, 54 years of playing these games (although I did not start reloading until 1958) has shown me that what "should" be is not always what is. I am after reliable pass throughs with blood trails, and that has not happened with that bullet. Others may have different results. I once had a Rem 180 RN core-lokt fired from a .30-06 blow up on the brisket of a 130 lb. Pa whitetail. That bullet "should" have gone through him from end to end, but his lungs looked like they had been struck by aload of birdshot. Yet, at the time, that was my favorite bullet for Canadian moose. Stuff happens.

Sabotloader, and SHulionjoined this threadand usedtheir experience to try to help solve my problem.I really appreciate their help. You two on the other hand...