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Old 09-08-2008, 06:58 AM   #1
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default Shooting Muzzle loader $$

Ok I've come to the conclusion that I've got to change what I'm doing with my muzzle loader. It is costing me to damn much to shoot this thing. Over the last few weekends I've shot through at least $175 worth of powder and bullets.

Here's what I've been doing so far:

777 Pellets
TC Shockwaves 250gr
Powerbelts 245gr

How many loadings can I get out of a lb of Blackhorn? I'm thinking like 70 since 7000 grains in a lb and approx 100grs per load. I've been reading the posts and am thinking about trying it. Will it fire with the standard breech plug in my Omega?

What are some bullets and sabots that I can hunt with that I can purchase in bulk? I want to stay away from the $20 for 15 round bullets. It's getting out of freakin hand!

Tom
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:52 AM   #2
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

Quote:
ORIGINAL: statjunk

Ok I've come to the conclusion that I've got to change what I'm doing with my muzzle loader. It is costing me to damn much to shoot this thing. Over the last few weekends I've shot through at least $175 worth of powder and bullets.

Here's what I've been doing so far:

777 Pellets
TC Shockwaves 250gr
Powerbelts 245gr

How many loadings can I get out of a lb of Blackhorn? I'm thinking like 70 since 7000 grains in a lb and approx 100grs per load. I've been reading the posts and am thinking about trying it. Will it fire with the standard breech plug in my Omega?

What are some bullets and sabots that I can hunt with that I can purchase in bulk? I want to stay away from the $20 for 15 round bullets. It's getting out of freakin hand!

Tom
Well since no one else did, theres a few thing you should notice.
The idea of going buy 7000 gr in a pound when loads are measured by volume dont work.
For your info, the standard set by Weastern for Black Horn is that 70 gr of wt is equal100gr by black powder volume.
Those power belts you mentioned not only cost excessively but have a narrow field of application [dont load more than 85 gr of powder by vol behind them they might frag on an animal]
Black Horn works well for me in an Omega[ use a 1/8 inch drill to clean the carbon out of the breah plug now and then if you use win 209's]
Black Horn has only 10 oz in a can. It is very expensive and not the way to cut costs.
#1 If you are shooting for fun there are much cheaper ways to go.
I recommend loose powder, Pyrodex will work fine it is the most cosistant of the cheaper subs.
#2 Buy XTP or Gold Dot bullets in bulk if you want to use them for hunting to, I recommend 250 gr Gold Dot for deer size animals.
#3 if you are not hunting ,then buy lead bullets in bulk or mold and size your own [ some do this for hunting to]
Buy yor sabots in bulk from Graf or Midsouth.
#4 If you configure your buying carefully you should do better than 50% of what you were spending.
#5 If you want to use the best for hunting and still shoot all year long then try the Parker or Barnes or Partition bullets and only shoot them to sight in before season and for deer or what ever.
Lee
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:12 AM   #3
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

I still use Goex inless I find Pyrodex on sale...A pound of Goex FFF from the local distributor is $11.55...

For cheaper bullets you might try bulk MMP-24 sabots and .452 Hornady XTPs in either 250 or 300gr...
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:28 AM   #4
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

When cost of shooting is my concern, and it is... shoot something cheaper. Try some Pyrodex RS, Goex 2f, or even Triple Se7en. Find it on sale and it is all the better. One year when Wal Mart had their end of season sale and Pyrodex RS was $8.00 a pound, I bought them out. I think I ended up with twenty somepounds. But at that price it was a great deal. That was three or four years ago, and I have shot all that off long ago. That's cheap shooting.

As for bullets, I could not agree more. These companies that want a $1.00 a pop for their bullets can shoot them off themselves. What I actually do is I find a load that shoots good with these fancy bullets like Barnes, Nosler, Powerbelt, Sierra, Parker, etc.. and then I have a pack of them for hunting. For target shooting, I get bulk.

My favorite bulk bullets are 300 grain Hornady XTP .44 caliber and Green Crushed Rib sabots. These shoot well out of 80% of my inlines and fast twist rifles.

Another thing is get a traditional rifle and some roundball. You can load 80 grains of powder and shoot all day for very little.

As for Black Horn 209 giving you 70 shots.. I would not bet on it. The jug is 10 ounces not 16 ounces (one pound). Also I shoot 100 grains of it. I never weighed that out, but I would doubt I get 60 shots out of a jug of it. I wish I had kept better track of the first jug, but I believe I got 49 shots out of it, but don't quote me...
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:36 AM   #5
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

statjunk

Quote:
777 Pellets
TC Shockwaves 250gr
Powerbelts 245gr
Pellets - probably the most expensive form of powder on the market
Both - bullets - way to expensive to shoot for fun and not even the best bullets for hunting - just my person opinion

Loose powder is far less expensive - unless you are going to purchase 10 oz container of BH - I shoot T7 because I can get it for $20 off the shelf and sometimes for $13/$15 on sale - but for a lot of shooters it presents some problems - fortunately for me it doesn't.

Bulk bullets such as the Speer Gold Dot with packages of sabots to fit your bore - much cheaper and the the Gold Dot is a very effective bullet on game, unless you are shooting 175+ ranges the bulk of the time. The Gold Dot will do it but it requires you to use a thought process.

One of the big reason I turned to shooting ML's was shooting expense - I shot a lot centerfire for along time when I made the switch to ML's it was more enjoyable and less expensive per shot.

just some thoughts
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:32 AM   #6
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

https://www.grafs.com/product/188177 1 lb of Hodgdon T7 FFg 19.99 7000 grains powder = ~100 loads at 100 grains Volumetric 20 cents per load.

https://www.grafs.com/product/185058 1000 Cheddite 209 primers 27.59 2.8 cents per load

https://www.grafs.com/product/189133 Hornady .452 XTP 50/box 14.39 29 cents per load

https://www.grafs.com/product/188040 Harvester .50 sabots 50/pack 4.59 9.2 cents per load

Cost of above load 61 cents



-----

https://www.grafs.com/product/185256 or https://www.grafs.com/product/185257 245 grain Powerbelts 15-20 @ 16.99 85 to 114 cents/load

https://www.grafs.com/product/200733 TC Shockwave 250 grain 14.99/15pk 100 cents per load

https://www.grafs.com/product/188181 Hodgdon T7 50-50-100 pellets 22.99/box 46 cents per load

same primers as above 2.8 cents per load

Cost of each load using above components $1.34 to $1.63 per shot



All based upon just one vendor's pricing and does not include HAZMAT or any shipping charges (should be roughly the same expense for either load).




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Old 09-08-2008, 09:41 AM   #7
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

oh... and

10 oz of BlackHorn 209 is 4375 grains of powder

100 grains VOLUMETRIC of BH209 weighs roughly 70 grains

4375/70 = 62.5 loads per container of BH209 (call it 60 assuming a bit of spillage)

At $32 per container, each charge would cost ~ 54 cents

Using Blackhorn and the individual components in the first example above would yield a cost per load of ~ 95 cents... still a tremendous savings over the loads in the 2nd example above.


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Old 09-08-2008, 10:32 AM   #8
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

For 54 caliber Great Plains flintlock:

1 lb GOEX FFFg @ $10.16 per lb. with 80 grain charge = $0.17 per shot.
Hornady .530 balls @ $11.91 per 100 = $0.12 per shot.
1 yard Walmart pillow ticking @ $3.49 per yard yields1152 patches = $0.003 per shot.
1 black English flint @ $1.50 each yields 40 shots (average)= $0.04 per shot.

TOTAL: $0.33 per shot (cast your own balls with free lead= $0.21 per shot).
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:58 AM   #9
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

Ok I think I have paralysis by analysis. I'd like a bulk bullet that has good accuracy that I can shoot all year around at paper and hunt with it. What fits that bill? Only for deer sized game.

Also when picking a bulk bullet that does not come mated with a sabot how do you choose a sabot?

Also you guys are telling me that it's measured by volume. I've never shot a muzzleloader without using pellets. Does that mean I'm going to need a volumetric measuring tool? How accurate is that method? What about settling?

Is there an advantage of Goex FFFg over 777 loose powder? I guess if they are close I'd go with 777 powder.

I think I need this slightly dummied up to get me started.

Thanks
Tom
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:04 PM   #10
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Default RE: Shooting Muzzle loader $$

Quote:
ORIGINAL: statjunk

Ok I think I have paralysis by analysis. I'd like a bulk bullet that has good accuracy that I can shoot all year around at paper and hunt with it. What fits that bill? Only for deer sized game.

Also when picking a bulk bullet that does not come mated with a sabot how do you choose a sabot?

Also you guys are telling me that it's measured by volume. I've never shot a muzzleloader without using pellets. Does that mean I'm going to need a volumetric measuring tool? How accurate is that method? What about settling?

Is there an advantage of Goex FFFg over 777 loose powder? I guess if they are close I'd go with 777 powder.

I think I need this slightly dummied up to get me started.

Thanks
Tom

Good quality bulk bullets that you can afford and hunt with... Hornady XTP and Speer Gold Dot. I personally like the .44 caliber .430 diameter 300 grain XTP but you get more shots out of the 250 grain or 240 grain which would also be good deer bullets IF YOUR RIFLE LIKES THEM. The Speer Gold Dot I so far have not decided which bullet I like best. I have shot a lot of them but just have not made up my mind.

To match the sabot, look at the caliber and diameter of the bullet you are buying. A .44 caliber .430 needs a sabot made for a .44 caliber .430 diameter bullet. Normally they are green in color, but that is not always true. I like the Harvester Crushed Rib sabots. In the .45 caliber bullets which are .452 or .458 you have to be a little more careful. The .452 diameter need the black sabots made for a .45 caliber bullet in .452 diameter. BUT in the .458 which is also a .45 caliber (normally made for the 45/70 government) they are an orange sabot, in .458 diameter.

All of them would work well on deer. Deer are not that hard to kill and a 200-300 grain bullet is plenty medicine.

As for powder, if shooting a 209 ignition the Triple Se7en 2f is a great powder. Lots of power and goes off fine for me. You will need to get a powder measure that measures powder in volume. Set the measure at 80 grains and then start shooting groups. Work the measure up to 120 grains of loose, depending on the rifle you shoot and the accuracy you get. Normally somewhere between 90-110 is best accuracy in most rifles. BUT know what the manufacturer of your rifle recommends.

What kind of rifle are you shooting? I best some of these people can tell you a load that might work.
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