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Old 07-28-2008, 04:08 PM   #1
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Default To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

The objective of my Sunday range session with the .54 Great Plains flintlock was to see how much of a difference, if any, a wad made to accuracy.

The plan was to shoot four five-shot groups - two with a .530 ball with wad and without wad, and two with a .535 ball with wad and without wad. I had also intended to shoot the test loads over the chronograph for velocity comparisons, but decided I didn't want to fool with it in the heat.

All shots were at 50 yardsfrom a bench with 85 grains GOEX FFFg, aWal-Mart pillow tick patch, and my 25% bees wax/25% Crisco/50% olive oil lube. The bore was wiped with one side of a damp patch and one side of a dry patch between shots.

Here's the first target fired with the .530 ball and no wad. That's a two and one-quarter inch group (about my average at 50 yards with iron sights and this gun).





Here's the second target with a felt Remington Wonder Wad under the .530 ball. A two and three-quarter in group.But three of the shots are touching. Maybe I'm not shooting up to theload's potential.



Here's the third target with the .535 ball and no wad. A two and one-half inch group.




And here's the .535 ball with a wad - a three inch group.



In both cases, the load with the wad was 1/2" bigger than the load without the wad - not what I expected. Now this is a pretty limited test and the differences could certainly be coincidental and/or myaiming errors. However, I did learn a few things.

- I can shoot this gun well enough to take a deer out to 50 yards.
- The gun can probably do better than I can shoot with iron sights.
- Using a wad while shooting on the range is probably a waste of time and wads (at least for me).
- Using a wad in a hunting load to keep lube from contaminating thepowder won't hurt a thing.
- The gun won't go off if you don't put powder and a ball in the bore - no matter how many times you prime the pan.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:17 PM   #2
 
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

Nice shooting. I was fine tuning the omegas scope this evening before i had to go back inside due to black out and coming to with blood coming out of a gash in the back of my head. Turns out my 13yo nephew was behind me goofing off while i was reaching for my speedloader when he threw a stick and it turned out to be accidently aimed at my head[:@]


My CVA .54 Big Bore will be in tuesor wed! Got plenty of powder caps and balls to sight her in. Then i have to order stuff to redo her.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:57 PM   #3
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

Oh MAN! That's gotta be scary. Coming to on the ground and not knowing what the heck happened.

What grain weight stick was your nephew throwing? Sounds like a pretty good load to get a woosh-flop like that.
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My wife says I'm totally nuts, but I think I'm Semisane.

Things I've Learned:
(1) It's not possible to please everyone, but quite easy to piss everyone off.
(2) If you love animals as I do, then you're not a vegetarian.
(3) There's no need to act stupid, even if you're very good at it.
(4) If you eat right and exercise, don't smoke or drink, you're going to die anyway.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:03 PM   #4
 
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

From what he described to me, 4" long and about an inch thick. I never seen him run to the 4 wheeler so fast with the words, IM SORRY IM SORRY!! flying out of his mouth.

Never hit the ground. I had my speed loaders on my shooting table and fell up against my shooting sand bag.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:26 PM   #5
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

In response to:

- I can shoot this gun well enough to take a deer out to 50 yards.
- The gun can probably do better than I can shoot with iron sights.
- Using a wad while shooting on the range is probably a waste of time and wads (at least for me).
- Using a wad in a hunting load to keep lube from contaminating thepowder won't hurt a thing.
- The gun won't go off if you don't put powder and a ball in the bore - no matter how many times you prime the pan.

50 yards is all I sight my FL for an all that I am comfortable to shoot. I am shooting to 70 now and can hit 3" group. I am with you, I can't shoot as well as the gun can. As for your last conclusion, that is a universal law that we will call Semisane "Homework Law":

"Always shoot with a powder, bullet and primer in all cases you are shooting".

Chap
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:03 PM   #6
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

With that kind of shooting, I would not go with a wad when hunting.. Have you tried dry patching the rifle yet?
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:33 PM   #7
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

What did your patches look like after they were shot???

I used a wad in my .54 for several years, until I finally found the right lube and ticking for my gun...My groups without the wad were in that 2-3 inch range, and my patches were burning up...Now, I'm cutting the center out of the bull and could reuse the patches...

I feel that we don't give enough attention to the patch and lube in traditional shooting...

How tight is that .530/.018 ticking to load???
Could you cut up an old pair of blue jeans and use them behind those .530s...I can't remember, but I think denim is .022...Or, use 2-.010 patches???

Another thought...Did you shoot any second shots without cleaning the barrel??? My gun will shoot and load nicely with the 1st shot being .530 ball and .018 patch and the 2nd being .530 ball and .015 patch...

And...If I haven't rambled enough...I'd drop down to 75-80grs of powder...It's all you need for deer, out to 125 yards...We are asking the cotton patches to do alot, extra powder just makes it harder for them...

When you get through with all the above...Try some different lube...I did this a few years back, labeled 5 different batches of lubed patches, put them in zip lock bags and went to the range...It was amazing that something so simple would change the size of the groups...
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:38 PM   #8
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

Semi - Now you got me curious. Next time I get out I am going to try shooting my 54 with and without the wads and PRB to see if I get the same result.
When you going to get the test on the 50 cal conicals you sized????
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:12 PM   #9
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

.
Quote:
Have you tried dry patching the rifle yet?
No, I haven't. Dang! Another thing I've gotta`do.

Quote:
What did your patches look like after they were shot???
All were in good shape. No tears or burn through. The ones with wads were cleaner - no scorch. The no-wad ones were scorched, but nothing severe.

Quote:
How tight is that .530/.018 ticking to load???
Can't thumb start it with that combination. It takes a push of the short starter. The .535 ball with .018 patch requiresa "bump" on the short starter, as does the .530 ball with a denim. Here's a target I shot in May with the same load and a denim patch with no swabbing.




And here's a ten-shot group I shot with a light 50 grain load, .016 patches, .530 balls,and no swabbing. (So many variables - so little time. )





Quote:
When you going to get the test on the 50 cal conicals you sized????
Did it. Will post results this evening. It's gonna look a lot like the results you posted on your try with them. [&o]





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My wife says I'm totally nuts, but I think I'm Semisane.

Things I've Learned:
(1) It's not possible to please everyone, but quite easy to piss everyone off.
(2) If you love animals as I do, then you're not a vegetarian.
(3) There's no need to act stupid, even if you're very good at it.
(4) If you eat right and exercise, don't smoke or drink, you're going to die anyway.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:57 PM   #10
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Default RE: To Wad Or Not To Wad? That is the question.

Is that gun a 1-66 twist with button rifling???

My .54 is 1-72 with .015 deep cut rifling...It's very forgiving...

The reason I ask, is that you are staying around 2-3 inches with all your targets...With some, if you throw out a couple of shots, then you are down
to 1 1/2 inches, which is about as well as most can do, day in and day out
with a flinter and open sights...

If she is a 1-48 twist, I'd drop down to 50-60 grains and try to wring out a few 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups...Then I'd start creeping up on a hunting charge and see when she opens up...

If that is a button/shallow groove barrel, she might be a little picky...That's what I think I'm seeing in the grouping...
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